Art Festival - for your consideration

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PiotrKosmala
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Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:08 pm

Art Festival - for your consideration

Postby PiotrKosmala » Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:33 pm

From OceanEffects to Ton Roosendaal, Blender Foundation and Orange studio.

We have decided to post this open letter because we have found some major mistakes in Suzanne Awards.

At first - placing submissions on public forum was a worst way of dealing such matter. People had to face tremondous costs of bandwidth (our animation - The Trap was downloaded over 40 000 times, we have to pay for that just because we let everyone to download it). Some folks ran out of bandwith before their submissions were sent to the jugdes.
Another thing that we find wrongful and unjust is that one animation could be nominated in just one category.

The thing that was the most unfair in our opinnion is nominating animations that were not submitted in the official thread on www.elysiun.com.

"Submit animations here before October 7, 2005." - this is a quote from Elysiun post where submissions should be placed.

We have browsed this thread a lot of times but we did not find anything about this animations:

- Plumiferos
- The Goat, the Boy and the Sun

We have nothing against people who created this artworks, but in every art festival and contest there are rules that should be obeyed equally for all contestants. How come animations not submited officially are nominated to the award? Are they favoured in some way?

The Blender Conference will start tomorrow so nothing can be done to fix this mistakes, but we would like to ask for more professional approach while preparing that kind of contest in the future.

Regards

Piotr Kosmala (ODEON FILM STUDIO & OFX) & Michael Krupa (OCEANEFFECTS)

Goofster
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 12:26 pm

Postby Goofster » Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:46 am

I'm pretty sure that if you had told the competition organiser that you had
problems with bandwidth, they would have come up with a solution like not having to post the link in a public thread.

Roel

an-toni
Posts: 250
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:20 pm

Postby an-toni » Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:06 pm

i guess we all agree it can be organized better.

had nothing to do with it before, but made the title screens for the show, and at that point decided that next year there must be a submission system .. that will then make the title screens automatically for the show, but i guess it would be a good idea to have that system put the videos for distribution etc. too. and for voting etc. oh and i guess BitTorrent should be increasingly used for video distribution.

and yes, the categories need thinking. thank you for the feedback.

and for the great animation! the trap was actually a personal favourite of mine, along with esign.

~Toni

LetterRip
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Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:03 am

Postby LetterRip » Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:25 am

Hi,

I can certainly understand your frustration, and as An-Toni notes, we can likely all agree that the process could be better organized.

At first - placing submissions on public forum was a worst way of dealing such matter. People had to face tremondous costs of bandwidth (our animation - The Trap was downloaded over 40 000 times, we have to pay for that just because we let everyone to download it). Some folks ran out of bandwith before their submissions were sent to the jugdes.


As goofster noted one possible solution would be to contact the foundation earlier in the process if bandwidth was a concern. A possible technical solution would be to post the file as a bittorrent, where the downloaders use some of their bandwidth to further distribute the content, generally greatly reducing the original content hosts bandwidth needs. A social solution might have been to redirect the download page to a page requesting that individuals not download unless they were a judge.

Unfortunately these solutions are offered after the fact, hopefully next year they can be included as part of the official announcement to save others from the problems that you have encountered.

Another thing that we find wrongful and unjust is that one animation could be nominated in just one category.


While it does seem somwhat unfair, likely knowning in advance that that was the case would reduce the hard feelings that you have. So better defined rules in advance would be a good idea, and I agree that allowing competitions in multiple categories is a good suggestion.

The thing that was the most unfair in our opinnion is nominating animations that were not submitted in the official thread on www.elysiun.com.


I again can understand your frustration. I'm not sure for the reason for this, it might be that there have been other known submission methods and that the forum post was only a guideline and not a requirement (for what it's worth I seem to recall entries in past years also not being linked to in the forum thread).

We have nothing against people who created this artworks, but in every art festival and contest there are rules that should be obeyed equally for all contestants. How come animations not submited officially are nominated to the award? Are they favoured in some way?


As noted above, I think there were already accepted methods of entry and the forum thread was a guideline and not a requirement. In the case of Plumiferos, I think it was submitted prior to the official anouncement. So I don't think it was a case of favoratism, just a case of inadequate communication.

LetterRip

joeri
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Contact:

Postby joeri » Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:53 am

We are in need of somebody who has time to organize this well.

And if possible without the use of elysiun forum.
Now this is not a rant on elysiun ( as people like to think I love todo that ),
but as stated by Ton and Roel at the conference: Elysiun is an indepandant website, so it's very "strange" that the official Blender Foundation Art Festifal is organized at Elysiun.

Resources! That's always the keyword at events like this.
Somebody please standup and give time to organize this with the blender foundation. I'm sure Elysiun is happy to provide the bandwith, but there should be a better signal from the blender foundation that this is something they iniciate, as they bennefit the most from getting free artwork to prove blender is more than a toy.

Just mail Ton you want todo it, post on blender3d.org that you are going todo it (so other can volenteer to help you), make a plan, then communicate with the community truw 3d.org for the techies and elysiun/b-artists for the arties how and what will happen.
Just ask Bart for a typo3 page at blender.org, post it as a news item, and i'm pretty sure that soon you'll be able to get a typo3 page at elysiun for things just like this.

Commit yourself into making this a succes.
This can start today, I'm sure there will be a conference next year.
Bandwith/ File conversion/ title screens etc. are all items that are easely solved within the community as long as someone organizes it, and communicates about it. I'm more than happy to make title screens or convert files, as I'm sure others are if they would be aware of a need for such a service.
The blender foundation needs volunteers, not only to write the code, not to come up with know features that other packages have, but specialy to get things organized.

Thank you for your attention.

Apollux
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 4:27 am
Location: Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic

Postby Apollux » Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:52 pm

Not exactly related to the submision process but to the category definition process.

"Suzanne Awards + New Rules ... your opinion?"
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=279360

I include the link because the topics discussed on that thread seems to be closely related to the topic been discussed here. Not pretending to revive that old thread but there were some explanations and suggestions posted there by members of the Suzanne Awards comitee that would apply to this situation as well.

malefico
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 6:51 am

Postby malefico » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:47 am

Hi, just wanted to clarify a little bit a about Plumiferos.

Our material was sent to Ton with the sole purpose of showing the kind of work we've been doing and to ask for development help. This was JUST before Orange Project was made public. So, it wasn't even related to Art Festival. We also sent to Ton a report describing lots of little problems Blender had (we used Blender 2.36 FYI) and an article about the whole Plumiferos Project that hopefully soon will be published in this site.
Thank God, Orange Project is fullfilling everything we asked Blender for.

Later on, when the calling for animations was posted, we didn't want to submit it at Elysiun's thread because of other problems not related with the contest which I don't want to comment on here. To tell the truth I wasn't even informed that Plumiferos was nominated for that matters. For me, it was like a secret thing between Ton and us.

So, I understand you are pissed off, sorry. It has nothing to do wih us anyway. We were not "favoured" in any way (hey, we didn't win either !) and as Forrest Gump would say... "that's all I have to say 'bout that".

Best regards.

Claudio "malefico" Andaur
Manos Digitales Studio.

rcas
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:08 pm
Location: Portugal
Contact:

Postby rcas » Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:46 am

joeri wrote:We are in need of somebody who has time to organize this well.

And if possible without the use of elysiun forum.
Now this is not a rant on elysiun ( as people like to think I love todo that ),
but as stated by Ton and Roel at the conference: Elysiun is an indepandant website, so it's very "strange" that the official Blender Foundation Art Festifal is organized at Elysiun.

Resources! That's always the keyword at events like this.
Somebody please standup and give time to organize this with the blender foundation. I'm sure Elysiun is happy to provide the bandwith, but there should be a better signal from the blender foundation that this is something they iniciate, as they bennefit the most from getting free artwork to prove blender is more than a toy.

Just mail Ton you want todo it, post on blender3d.org that you are going todo it (so other can volenteer to help you), make a plan, then communicate with the community truw 3d.org for the techies and elysiun/b-artists for the arties how and what will happen.
Just ask Bart for a typo3 page at blender.org, post it as a news item, and i'm pretty sure that soon you'll be able to get a typo3 page at elysiun for things just like this.

Commit yourself into making this a succes.
This can start today, I'm sure there will be a conference next year.
Bandwith/ File conversion/ title screens etc. are all items that are easely solved within the community as long as someone organizes it, and communicates about it. I'm more than happy to make title screens or convert files, as I'm sure others are if they would be aware of a need for such a service.
The blender foundation needs volunteers, not only to write the code, not to come up with know features that other packages have, but specialy to get things organized.

Thank you for your attention.

I Stand Up.
I have a few ideas and hopefully have the time to do it (still one year to go, so). I will talk to Ton to possibly open a Mailing list for it and gather some ideas and make the next Art Festival the best ever.

So, don't worry, things will happen in due time and with lots of Feedback from the Community, that is my aim for it.

Best Regards and I will keep in touch,

RCAS
How to use a Blender:
Put your model, rig, animation and textures in the Blender, turn the Blender on and wait for it to Render, then turn the Blender off and show it to your friends.

rcas
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:08 pm
Location: Portugal
Contact:

Postby rcas » Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:52 am

Oh, by the way, my aim for the Awards:

- Best Artwork Award
- Best Animation Award
- Best Game Award
- Best Educational Project Award
- Best Code Award
- Outstanding achievement Award

Also, I will talk to Ton to see if there is a possibility to get some sponsors for the Awards, like having Wacom tablets or 24" LCDs as prizes for the winners, cash is good, but sponsors mostly prefer to give their own hardware / software.

Just an idea, must be polished.
How to use a Blender:

Put your model, rig, animation and textures in the Blender, turn the Blender on and wait for it to Render, then turn the Blender off and show it to your friends.

LetterRip
Posts: 1462
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:03 am

Postby LetterRip » Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:09 am

Award sponsors are a good idea, definitely something worth pursuing.

LetterRip


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