Alpha texture with twoside goes wrong

Game Engine, Players & Web Plug-in, Virtual Reality, support for other engines

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aequitas
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 6:21 pm
Location: Holland

Alpha texture with twoside goes wrong

Postby aequitas » Mon Jan 27, 2003 12:56 am

I am trying to make a 3d cube with transparent sides as a menu for a cdrom. The sides of the cube are seperated from eachother and each of them has a part of the same(tga or rgb)texture with Alpha and TwoSide activated. In the 3dwindow all looks nice. but whem switching to 3d preview (or run it as standalone) the backplane overlaps the frontplane.

The image used for the screenshot doesn't contain a alpha channel but it has the same problem as when it would have one. I have tried many options like changing recalculating normals using 2 different planes with TwoSide off. Using linked or copied objects doesn't make a difference. Nothing helps.

Sometimes it seems that blender chooses the plane which is drawn in front at random.

3dwindow
Image
3dpreview(or standalone)
Image

anyone?




To blend or not to blend is no question.
Its a matter of having discovered it.

calli
Posts: 63
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Postby calli » Mon Jan 27, 2003 12:51 pm

Alpha faces are not sorted in the game engine...

Its a bug (I think) or at least not supported.

C.

aequitas
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 6:21 pm
Location: Holland

Postby aequitas » Mon Jan 27, 2003 10:49 pm

i have read on the elysium forums many others have problems with this to. Ill just have to find a workaround to solve my problem.

I seen a topic about ajpg which don't need the alpha button set to be transparent. I will give that a try.

J!

aequitas
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Postby aequitas » Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:43 pm

Ajpg is the awnser. On the elysuin forum there is a topic describing how to make ajpg's

http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7551&highlight=

As soon as i have a good example i will post it here.

soul_crash
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WOW!

Postby soul_crash » Tue Feb 18, 2003 9:08 pm

allright. given this is a kinda lossy (pardon the pun) workaround for the alpha problem that has been plagueing my work for some time, it's still a pretty nice solve for an irritating problem.

but i hope this doesn't hold them back from smoothing out the tga and png alpha bug. as soon as it's gone, i'll e able to put hair on my models and use sprites and whatnot without hateing every second of it ^_^

thanks!

soul_crash
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nope

Postby soul_crash » Wed Feb 19, 2003 11:20 pm

ajpg still has the same glitch. hope it gets worked out soon cuz it's about the same as not haveing alpha support in the first place.

this is what i'm talking about. no real alpha, no hair.

http://68.49.90.75/face.exe

oh, sorry about the high texture resolution on the model. i forgot to use the game texture instead of the rendering texture ^_^

aequitas
Posts: 43
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Location: Holland

Postby aequitas » Wed Feb 19, 2003 11:37 pm

Since thier still working on the 2.26 gamengine i think it will have a lot of improvements and maybe the correct handling of alpha images to.

Nive face. Just a little bit more detail on the mounth.
And to bad the alpha doesn't work out that nice.

Never mind about the high texture model. Just upgrade your upload speed. ;)

soul_crash
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hahaha

Postby soul_crash » Thu Feb 20, 2003 1:42 am

allright. if you have a geforce card with a log of vram you shouldn't worry about hugh textures. and i don't think they will slow your progress down a lot during development, BUT... the eye texture is unnecesarily big. 800x800 pixel tga with alpha. during a game with a million other textures and architecture/level design, i think it would start to pose a problem. and i'm willing to bet that some gfx cards would just ignore it alltogether ^_^

and yeah, i'm working on the lips. but i'm going to post some rendered pics with cat-mull clarke surfaces and whatnot on my page shortly so go check it out.

http://68.49.90.75/

aequitas
Posts: 43
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Location: Holland

Postby aequitas » Thu Feb 20, 2003 11:33 am

Nice site. Good design.
To bad it is not working on opera. Do mozilla clones support it right?

I am trying do develop my own personal site. But it is realy tough to make it linux, win, ie, ns and whatever compatible. Especialy css styles.

Sends me a message when you have a update. Would like to see more of your work.

thornae
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2002 11:53 am

Postby thornae » Thu Feb 20, 2003 12:28 pm

aequitas wrote:Nice site. Good design.
To bad it is not working on opera. Do mozilla clones support it right?


Nope. Not phoenix, anyway, which is a good indication no others will, either. Renders it slightly better than Opera, tho'.

aequitas wrote:I am trying do develop my own personal site. But it is realy tough to make it linux, win, ie, ns and whatever compatible. Especialy css styles.


Yup. This is why 90% of the net only writes pages for IE... and poor concientious souls like yourself suffer from the lack of standards. My personal preference is to make sure that everything basic works in as many browsers as you can test, then if you want to do fancy stuff, support whicherver browser you prefer, and give people the option to view a non-fancy page if their browser isn't the one you prefer.
...because I can!

aequitas
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Location: Holland

Postby aequitas » Thu Feb 20, 2003 12:45 pm

Never used phoenix before. Just downloaded it. Looks nice, has tabs, is cross platform. Will try it out.

I mainly used opera because i work 2 platform. windoos for webdesign/games and linux for games/coding/blender/everything.
And i needed a cross platform browser so my bookmarks and history could then be shared and because ie sucks and because opera had tabs and much more.

I think my website will be mainly normal html with css for font. Images will be png for not internet exploder browsers because they support png transparency. :)

And of course i will add a special 3d blender version as alternative to the flat version. No flash all javascript.

thornae
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2002 11:53 am

Phoenix vs Opera

Postby thornae » Thu Feb 20, 2003 1:37 pm

Phoenix is nice, but it hasn't replaced Opera as my main browser for a couple of reasons - first, it's still not as stable, especially when I've got a heap of tabs going at once - and second, the main reason: it can't emulate Opera's "continue browsing from where you left off" feature, especially after a crash. That's one of my favourite features in Opera, along with the extremely fine-grained control over cookies. Mozilla has better control over pop-up windows, though.

Just for fun, here's a couple of sites with some interesting tricks that pretty much only work in Mozilla-based browsers

http://www.ncf.ca/~bh447/pngdemo/
http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/complexspiral/demo.html

And I look forward to seeing the 3D Blended version of your site... (=
...because I can!

aequitas
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 6:21 pm
Location: Holland

Postby aequitas » Thu Feb 20, 2003 1:55 pm

Nice examples. If i would use them on my site i would have to use a warning like.

WARNING!: This would look very very very very ugly on a internet exploder browser.

I have treid phoenix a little bit but opera stays my faforite for now. Just like the things you said.

stuuf133t
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 2:38 am

Postby stuuf133t » Sun Mar 02, 2003 12:07 am

aequitas wrote:I am trying do develop my own personal site. But it is realy tough to make it linux, win, ie, ns and whatever compatible. Especialy css styles.


Making websites compatible with more than 1 browser keeps getting harder and harder. There are just too many standards out there, and too many proprietary [Microsoft] formats. Stick to fairly basic CSS1. CSS makes writing pages that look nice a whole lot easier. The text formatting parts of it are supported back to ns 4, but more advanced stuff only works on mozilla or IE. At this uncertain time between document.layers and DOM, javascript DHTML is hard to do and be supproted by everything. Don't code for a specific resolution. soul_crash's site says it needs 800x600, but to me it looks like it only uses 400x500. If you use tables for things like columns, keep one at width="100%" to fill the whole screen, and avoid font-size: 8px; font-size: 6px; font-size: 4px;
There's a lot of fancy stuff you can do with advanced CSS and html, but most of it isnt supported. Don't make the entire page layout dependant on supporting stylesheets!

z3r0_d
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you can sort them manually

Postby z3r0_d » Mon Mar 03, 2003 3:20 am

quoth a post [of mine] on another thread:

There is a manual way to make alpha faces render in the correct order in a single object, but it can be painful.

Theory:
transluscent faces (alpha faces) must be rendered in the order oppsite distance from the viewer (furthest to nearest) so that they appear to overlap correctly.

Taking advantage of the fact that faces can be made rendered from only one side (by default they are), and order sometimes can be determined that will result in a correct appearance from all sides.

to make the faces in an object render in this order the object must be split up into parts (what the parts consist of depends on the object. Some examples: top and bottom of each set of leaves in a tree [see images], or inside and outside of a sphere), and re-joined in order. I think that order is the order the objects should be drawn. (If not it is the opposite)

having faces set to will cause this technique to not work. If a face needs to be visible from both sides, it [probably] needs to be two faces.

I was working on a script for this (today), but I don't know when it will be completed.

With that said, an example of good and bad:
goodImageand badImage

---------------update---------

I also noticed that you can sort the faces of an object in the z direction with [ctrl]+[f] out of edit mode.


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