SpaceNavigator 3D Connexion & Blender 2.5 ?

General discussion about the development of the open source Blender

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Tehrasha
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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:21 am
Location: Iowa

Postby Tehrasha » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:26 am

Batty wrote:Will this be solved somewhere soon, sorry for asking like this, but it's because in our Studio we are on a tight shedule and the need to decide for a new and better Software solution must be solved in about two weeks. Then a big project will start and we can't change the software anymore.


Will it be solved? Yes, Mike Erwin (the guy responsible for the 3d controller support) has many features on his to-do list, true free motion pan/zoom is one of them.

Will it be done in the next two weeks? My guess is, not likely.

Batty
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Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:14 am
Location: Germany

Postby Batty » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:38 am

Thanks for the fast Response, Tehrasha. Maybe in a Year or so, when next Productions will start.
I recognized that the pan forward gets stuck short behind the middle of the grid (maybe the pan forward is a zoom or something like that, I'm not sure) and I can't get far beyond it. After that I can't move the Camera back anymore or forward at all, in fact it can only rotate by then - all other moveability is gone completely. I don't know if this info will help you somehow...I just posted it anyway.

Greetings,
Batty

Tehrasha
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Location: Iowa

Postby Tehrasha » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:28 pm

Batty wrote:I recognized that the pan forward gets stuck short behind the middle of the grid (maybe the pan forward is a zoom or something like that, I'm not sure) and I can't get far beyond it.


The zoom function is relative to position. When you near -zero-, the movements are very very tiny. It is the same whether you are using the mouse, or the spacemouse.

3dbloke
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Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:21 pm
Location: Engerland

3DConnexion axes reversal (Blender 2.62)

Postby 3dbloke » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:52 pm

I'm new to Blender and have a 3DConnexion SpaceNavigator which I also use with SketchUp. I am using Windows 7 Pro, SP1.

I've installed the latest drivers (2011-11-29) for the SpaceNavigator and Blender responds to it, but the motion is opposite to what I would expect, as if controlling a camera that is orbiting the model.

What I'd like is to be able to invert all the SpaceNavigator axes, so that movement of the control cap affects the objects in the scene. In the case of zooming, pushing away on the SpaceNavigator would move the scene away from me (zooming out). Likewise, lifting up would move the scene upwards and sliding left would move the scene to the left.

Is it possible to invert all axes of the SpaceNavigator as interpretted by Blender? I've done this in the 3DConnexion control panel app (in Windows 7), but Blender does not seem to take note of this. If not via the UI, is there a Python script that I can edit?

Thanks.
--Thomas

Tehrasha
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Location: Iowa

Re: 3DConnexion axes reversal (Blender 2.62)

Postby Tehrasha » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:56 am

3dbloke wrote:What I'd like is to be able to invert all the SpaceNavigator axes, so that movement of the control cap affects the objects in the scene.


There is a built-in menu to do this.

Image

In the past, this would pop-up when pressing one of the buttons on the Navigator. The latest builds seem to have changed this.

File --> User Preferences --> Input

Look for a function called 'Call Menu' NDOF, and assign it to one of the buttons on your Navigator, or some obscure keypress. (I use ctrl-shift-~)
Save that setting and then you can pull up that menu anytime you need it.

3dbloke
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Location: Engerland

Postby 3dbloke » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:20 am

Thanks Tehrasha.

Why I didn't try this, I don't know! The left button on the SpaceNavigator works exactly as you describe, displaying the 3D Mouse Settings menu. The menu disappears with each click, which seems a bit odd... have to display it several times to make all the changes.

Out of interest, I tried to find these settings in File > User Perferences > Input but couldn't find them. I hesitate to say they aren't there, me being such a noob :wink: I'm still exploring Blender's rich UI.

So, it's working now, almost as I like it. The only fly in the ointment is having to hold down SHIFT to pan, as this interrupts any rotation, breaking the fluid movement and object manipulation that the 3D Mouse is so good at. I notice that Zoom (push / pull) works regardless of SHIFTedness. I saw mention of SHIFT-pan usage earlier in this thread, I think. Hope this can be improved in a future release.
--Thomas

CyberGolem
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Postby CyberGolem » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:50 pm

Has anyone had any luck with the latest version of Blender working with the SpacePilot? I went to the OEM site and they state that v2.47 to 2.49 is supported [Certified]. I'm ready to get one of these but not unless I know if it will work with v2.62.
I'm using OSX Snow Leopard (64bit).
Thanks.

Tehrasha
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Location: Iowa

Postby Tehrasha » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:41 am

CyberGolem wrote:Has anyone had any luck with the latest version of Blender working with the SpacePilot? I went to the OEM site and they state that v2.47 to 2.49 is supported [Certified]. I'm ready to get one of these but not unless I know if it will work with v2.62.
I'm using OSX Snow Leopard (64bit).
Thanks.


What fortuitous timing! My SpacePilot from ebay just arrived, and I have just now plugged it in to test with Blender 2.62. (this is the older SpacePilot, not the SpacePilotPro)

Right out of the box, no special drivers installed. Windows XP.
Blender picks up the device immediately. All of the buttons work as labled.

AFAIK, Blender considers all USB spacemice to be generic HID devices, and does not require any proprietary driver. Though I cannot confirm it is that easy in OSX, I would be very surprised if it didnt work.

The reason that the Pilot was 'certified' by 3DConnexion, is because they developed the Blender plugin for it. Since the start of the 2.5x cycle, 3DConnexion has shown no interest in developing a similar plugin.

This appears to have been a blessing in disguise, as the support which Mike Erwin has written in supports many older devices which 3DConnexion has deemed obsolete.

If you get the SpacePilot and it -doesnt- work with OSX, get in touch with Mike directly. Not only is he developing the support for these devices, but he is also a devoted Mac user. He is even working on PPC support for the old iron. :)
Last edited by Tehrasha on Tue May 05, 2015 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Spacemice Wiki -- Input devices for a 3D world.
Spacemice / Blender Compatibility

CyberGolem
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Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:12 pm

Postby CyberGolem » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:11 am

Thanks Tehrasha, since Macs are pretty much PCs under the hood anyway (psst don't let my fellow Apple-cult members hear me say that ;), I hope you're right.

So now I'd like to ask a favor of anyone living in the New England area that owns a SpacePilot(Pro) that is willing to allow me to borrow it long enough to see if it actually works... If you are then of course I'm willing to bribe you with lunch or something.

I also intend to get in touch with Mike Erwin as well to see if he already has it working on his Mac.

Thanks again!

CyberGolem
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:12 pm

Postby CyberGolem » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:21 am

Ummmm? How does one get in contact with Mike Erwin? Is he with Pixologic or 3Dconnexion?

Tehrasha
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Location: Iowa

Postby Tehrasha » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:45 am

CyberGolem wrote:Ummmm? How does one get in contact with Mike Erwin? Is he with Pixologic or 3Dconnexion?


I dont think he works for either of those...
I believe significant.bit [at] gmail.com is his public addresses.
Spacemice Wiki -- Input devices for a 3D world.

Spacemice / Blender Compatibility

merwin_sigbit
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Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:25 am

Postby merwin_sigbit » Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:56 am

CyberGolem wrote:Ummmm? How does one get in contact with Mike Erwin? Is he with Pixologic or 3Dconnexion?


Tehrasha wrote:I dont think he works for either of those...
I believe significant.bit [at] gmail.com is his public addresses.


Hey, that's my PRIVATE email address! Just kidding, anyone here should feel free to email me with any questions or suggestions.

Regarding what works where (as of 2.62) here's a quick table:

-- Windows --
any 3Dx product (old or new) with a USB plug

-- Linux --
pretty much any 3Dx product ever made, USB or serial
(many thanks to Tehrasha & the spacenavd folks)

-- Mac --
SpaceNav, SN for Notebooks (using 3Dx driver)
SpaceExplorer, SpacePilotPro (using 3DxLabs beta driver)
SpaceMousePro (using latest 3Dx driver, sort of...)

Something I need to do soon is gather information like this -- what works TODAY, what doesn't, how to set up, get drivers (or not), which device to choose, how to use it in blender -- into a central place. There's too much confusion and old news if you look at the 3Dx forums, blenderartists, even this thread. Probably turns lots of people away from the whole 3D mouse experience.

I'm meeting with some 3Dconnexion folks very soon to push for better Mac support. Right now blender talks to the "official" device driver on Mac (not on other platforms), and this approach might not have been best. My bad. If 3Dconnexion delivers, we can enjoy full support for the USB devices, just like blender for Windows. If not, I'll have to dig into the low-level HID system to get them all working. Wouldn't you rather me spend that time fixing the stupid shift-pan behavior? Also my bad, by the way.

CyberGolem wrote:So now I'd like to ask a favor of anyone living in the New England area that owns a SpacePilot(Pro) that is willing to allow me to borrow it long enough to see if it actually works... If you are then of course I'm willing to bribe you with lunch or something.

I also intend to get in touch with Mike Erwin as well to see if he already has it working on his Mac.


Well, contact me already! I'm in the area and love to eat food and meet fellow blenderheads. Right now the SpacePilotPro works, the older SpacePilot does not. Do I still get food?

Thanks for the kind comments throughout this thread, and for everyone's patience as I got up to speed with blender development.

-- Mike

Tehrasha
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Location: Iowa

Postby Tehrasha » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:47 am

merwin_sigbit wrote:Something I need to do soon is gather information like this -- what works TODAY, what doesn't, how to set up, get drivers (or not), which device to choose, how to use it in blender -- into a central place. There's too much confusion and old news if you look at the 3Dx forums, blenderartists, even this thread. Probably turns lots of people away from the whole 3D mouse experience.


Good timing Mike!
I was just about to email you, asking for this kind of information so I could put it on my 3D Mouse wiki.

I had started a Blender compatibility grid on an unlinked page, but it was very outdated. Suddenly it started getting pageviews! Apparently Google crawled the site and was sending people to it. I did a search for 'spacemouse blender' and it was on the frist page! *EEP!*
Spacemice Wiki -- Input devices for a 3D world.

Spacemice / Blender Compatibility

Tehrasha
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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:21 am
Location: Iowa

Postby Tehrasha » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:28 am

Finally collected all of the information in one place in a semi-readable format.

A list of 3DConnexion 6DOF devices, and their compatibility with Blender, arranged by OS.

http://spacemice.org/index.php?title=Blender

Special thanks to Mike Erwin for supplying me with the Macintosh info, and for writing the 3D mouse support code in the first place...
Last edited by Tehrasha on Tue May 05, 2015 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Spacemice Wiki -- Input devices for a 3D world.

Spacemice / Blender Compatibility

zlanich
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:20 am

More input on OS X support for SpacePilot Pro

Postby zlanich » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:59 am

Hey Mike! I just purchased a SpacePilot Pro (10.4 Beta driver) and I have a MBP with OS X Lion and Blender 2.62 atm. I'll list what works and what doesn't here and also email it to you just to make sure I'm not having dissimilar problems from most people.

6DOF functionality:

Works:
-Zoom In/Out
-Rotate on Z axis
-Roll fwd/bkd
-Panning in all directions (USING SHIFT KEY)

Doesn't Work:
-Roll left/right

Button Functionality:

Works:
-Top View (& Inverse)
-Front View (& Inverse)
-Right View (& Inverse)
-Modifier Keys (all 4)
-Menu
-Fit
-Speed Adjustment
-LCD on/off btn
-Arrow Keys for the LCD to navigate Applet screens (only have 1 applet)

Doesn't Work:
-The whole Left programmable pad (5 buttons)
-90 degree rotation key
-ISO keys
-3 axis filter buttons (Dominant, etc)
-Other buttons for the LCD - I really don't know because I only have the Func Key Applet

Specifics:
-Not sure if the normal behavior for panning requires the shift key. If it does, then all is fine
-Rolling L/R doesn't work at all but Fwd/Bkd works perfect. I figured turning off "Lock Horizon" in the Menu from the Menu button would fix that but no luck
-The Axis filter keys on the right work outside Blender (they change the icon to red/green on the lcd), but in Blender they won't change, so because "Dominant" is the only one available to change in the System Prefs Pane for 3Dx, that's the only one I know "works", given I change it in the Prefs Pane. So I don't know if the others work at all. All I know is they wont change the icon on the LCD when in Blender.
-Setting any buttons in the Prefs Pane for custom keystrokes, etc don't work in Blender at all
-There's other spastic behavior occasionally too: Sometimes I'll come back into Blender and it seems like the speed for the 6DOF was reduced drastically. This only happened once or twice though.

Also worth mentioning. I tried the mouse in Photoshop CS5 and it does absolutely nothing. Not related to Blender at all haha but just figured I'd mention it in case it works for you for some reason.

Well, that's about the extent of my testing at this point. I hope this helps. I really am hoping for the buttons to work soon :/


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