SpaceNavigator 3D Connexion & Blender 2.5 ?

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Tehrasha
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Location: Iowa

Re: More input on OS X support for SpacePilot Pro

Postby Tehrasha » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:31 am

I am not Mike, but I can answer some of the things you site.

The functions you listed as not working, especially buttons, are essentially correct. They dont work under MacOS ... yet. Last I knew, Mike was having a nice heart-to-heart chat with 3DConnexion, trying to iron out the specifics of better Mac support.

-Roll left/right


This currently does not work in any OS.

Also, AFAIK, the LCD on/off and the associated arrow keys for the LCD are firmware controlled and only effect the applets. They are not read as standard HID key presses. (though I could be wrong)

-There's other spastic behavior occasionally too: Sometimes I'll come back into Blender and it seems like the speed for the 6DOF was reduced drastically. This only happened once or twice though.


Remember that all of these preferences are saved in the .blend files that you are working on.
So even if you get all your sensitivity levels set the way you like them and set them as default.
If you open an old .blend file, those old settings will override unless you check the 'Dont Load UI' box when you load them.
Spacemice Wiki -- Input devices for a 3D world.
Spacemice / Blender Compatibility

merwin_sigbit
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:25 am

Postby merwin_sigbit » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:39 am

Hey Zach,

Thanks for the detailed report! I haven't tested on Lion, but from what you say everything works the same as on Leopard / Snow Leopard.

zlanich wrote:Works:
-LCD on/off btn
-Arrow Keys for the LCD to navigate Applet screens (only have 1 applet)
Doesn't Work:
-Other buttons for the LCD - I really don't know because I only have the Func Key Applet

Right now blender does not interact with the LCD in any way. If something works, it's just by coincidence! There are far-off plans to do something cool with these screens, but not anytime soon. Any ideas?

-The whole Left programmable pad (5 buttons)
-90 degree rotation key
-ISO keys
-3 axis filter buttons (Dominant, etc)

Sure, they work -- they just don't do anything! You can go into the input prefs / keymap editor and assign these buttons to any action you want. Buttons like Fit and Top have reasonable default behaviors so they work out of the box, but 1-5 (6-10 if you hold them down) are ignored until you map them to something. The other ones (ISO, etc.) I just never got around to.

Coming soon: the ability to remap the keyboard modifier buttons. The SpacePilotPro doesn't really need more generic buttons, but the mid-range devices devote 1/3 of their buttons to keyboard modifiers,
and a few people have asked for more flexibility. By default it will work like it does today.

-Not sure if the normal behavior for panning requires the shift key. If it does, then all is fine

Yeah, it's lame, but it's working as expected. This is the #1 complaint from blenderheads, so better one-handed navigation (without shift) is at the top of my todo list.

-Rolling L/R doesn't work at all but Fwd/Bkd works perfect. I figured turning off "Lock Horizon" in the Menu from the Menu button would fix that but no luck

Switch from Turntable to Trackball in the input prefs. Lock horizon is specific to fly mode, and does pretty much what you expect.

-Setting any buttons in the Prefs Pane for custom keystrokes, etc don't work in Blender at all

I skip the whole 3D mouse --> keyboard emulation --> blender approach, and map buttons directly to actions within blender. Let me know if blender's keymap editor does everything you need, or if you really want keystrokes.

-There's other spastic behavior occasionally too: Sometimes I'll come back into Blender and it seems like the speed for the 6DOF was reduced drastically. This only happened once or twice though.

Just close your eyes and pretend this never happened! It's sporadic and only on the Mac, so I think it's a driver event queue bug. I'll bring it up next time I meet with 3Dconnexion.

Thanks again for the feedback. Let me know if the above info is helpful, and feel free to write back with any suggestions, gripes, new ideas, whatever.

Weird about Photoshop. Is it supposed to work? I've got CS3 but it never crossed my mind to use a 3D mouse with it...

Blend on!

merwin_sigbit
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:25 am

Re: More input on OS X support for SpacePilot Pro

Postby merwin_sigbit » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:18 am

Tehrasha wrote:The functions you listed as not working, especially buttons, are essentially correct. They dont work under MacOS ... yet.

:? Since he's using the 10.x beta driver, all the buttons should work. Blender ignores some of them by default until they're key-mapped.

The only device that's totally borked on MacOS is the new SpaceMousePro. Ok, to be fair it's only half borked, but it should be borkless! See Tehrasha's blender compatibility matrix for full details. Hopefully by the time most people read this the problem will be ancient history...

-Roll left/right

This currently does not work in any OS.


:? This works in every OS. It's controlled by the trackball input setting, or lock horizon for fly mode.

Also, AFAIK, the LCD on/off and the associated arrow keys for the LCD are firmware controlled and only effect the applets. They are not read as standard HID key presses. (though I could be wrong)

Exactly right. Blender doesn't get those button presses. I have no idea if they just go to the OS running on the device, or if they crawl through a secret tunnel (via USB) and talk to the driver.

If you open an old .blend file, those old settings will override unless you check the 'Dont Load UI' box when you load them.

Oh yeah, that... Don't know about you, but I can't wait 'til user prefs and .blend files are two separate things! :)

Tehrasha
Posts: 1264
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:21 am
Location: Iowa

Re: More input on OS X support for SpacePilot Pro

Postby Tehrasha » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:55 am

merwin_sigbit wrote::? This works in every OS. It's controlled by the trackball input setting, or lock horizon for fly mode.


Oh! I figured the ndof would override things like that, and its own lock-horizon would take precedent.

Blender doesn't get those button presses. I have no idea if they just go to the OS running on the device, or if they crawl through a secret tunnel (via USB) and talk to the driver.


My guess is the former. Even the ancient Magellan Spacemice had internal firmware settings that did not effect application or the OS. You could press the '*' button and then one of the number keys to raise/lower rot sensitivity, translation sensitivity, rot/tran dominance, etc..

The early Spaceballs had a recessed 'zero' button hidden on the side to compensate for any drift in the motion sensors. Making it doubly odd is that even though the zeroing was done in the hardware itself, it also sent a button event to the computer. We ended up setting spacenavd to just ignore it.

If you open an old .blend file, those old settings will override unless you check the 'Dont Load UI' box when you load them.

Oh yeah, that... Don't know about you, but I can't wait 'til user prefs and .blend files are two separate things! :)


No kidding. :roll:
Spacemice Wiki -- Input devices for a 3D world.

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zlanich
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:20 am

Corrections/Updates to my last post

Postby zlanich » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:18 pm

- All 6 axis on the 6DOF work, you just have to change your setting from Turntable to Trackball in User Preferences -> Input

- All buttons on the left pad are in fact programmable. You just need to assign them in User Preferences -> Input

- You can also get ISO1 to work by assigning it to Toggle Quad View in User Preferences -> Input

- A warning to those assigning key mappings for the SpacePilot pro on OS X: If you set all you settings and "Export" your key mappings using the Export button at the bottom in User Preferences -> Input, and import them back in, the 6DOF controller stops working. Mike says it must be wiping out the 6DOF mappings when importing. So to keep settings after mapping them, just choose File -> Save User Preferences.

chico
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 3:45 pm

Spacenavigator tested with blender 2.44, 2.58 - 2.63

Postby chico » Thu May 03, 2012 5:21 pm

hey everyone.

I just got my spacenavigator yesterday and was excited to test it in blender. I've been using a spacemouse plus from 3dconnexion for 5 years now at work but didn't have one at home yet.

But since I got it I was totally confused after installing the 3dxware software for win7 64bit.

3dxware Version: 3.15.3
Driver Version: 6.15.3
Firmware Version: 4.31

A lot of functions didn't really work in blender 2.63... this is where the journey began :D

Here is what I've figured out since yesterday after I tried all this following versions with the spacenavigator (I personally started with blending with 2.57):

- 2.44 works with the spacenavigator really great (also panning/translation works)

- since 2.5x the panning doesn't work anymore but couple of functions can be set with (for me) with the left button of the spacenavigator inside blender as Tehrasha mentioned it a long time ago.

- blender appearently ignores the 3dxware settings.. don't really care as long as it works... don't need much as far as the navigator works as it supposed to

Currently I've 2.63 installed but after my research I found out that "Tilt" works but the "Rol" function doesn't work anymore in 2.63 works fine with 2.62.
If anyone could confirm this case to make sure I'm not the only one who can "Tilt" but NOT "Rol" in 2.63.

So everything works fine from 2.59 until 2.62 except "pan" left/right and "pan" up/down which I know and read everywhere in the posts is being worked on by mike erwin.
It would awesome when "pan" works too because I don't really like the variation of choosing the 3dxware beta 10 driver to change the functions to 2D Mouse to be able to do that. This is not a intuitive way of working with a 3D mouse.

So let me say: "Thanks a lot to you mike and your devotion to blender and helping a huge community grow even more :)"

I will switch back to 2.62 because everything works fine with a spacenavigator until the "Tilt" function is back.

happy blending!

Diriel
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 12:22 pm

Postby Diriel » Fri May 04, 2012 12:26 pm

merwin_sigbit wrote:
-Not sure if the normal behavior for panning requires the shift key. If it does, then all is fine

Yeah, it's lame, but it's working as expected. This is the #1 complaint from blenderheads, so better one-handed navigation (without shift) is at the top of my todo list.


I was so happy to read this. This issue is the main reason that I'm still using 2.49b.

Looking forward to this issue being gone.

chico
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 3:45 pm

Postby chico » Fri May 04, 2012 4:39 pm

Diriel wrote:
merwin_sigbit wrote:
-Not sure if the normal behavior for panning requires the shift key. If it does, then all is fine

Yeah, it's lame, but it's working as expected. This is the #1 complaint from blenderheads, so better one-handed navigation (without shift) is at the top of my todo list.


I was so happy to read this. This issue is the main reason that I'm still using 2.49b.

Looking forward to this issue being gone.


I don't know I'm kind a comfortable right now without panning but I will be really happy when it's finally working again. It will be for me kind of an nice new feature! :D

Did set up the Shift key to one of my "G" buttons on the mouse.

Does anyone know how to set the navigators center to the center of an object after you pan in the 3D view it's of course not in the center anymore?

Tehrasha
Posts: 1264
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:21 am
Location: Iowa

Postby Tehrasha » Fri May 04, 2012 5:23 pm

chico wrote:
Diriel wrote:Does anyone know how to set the navigators center to the center of an object after you pan in the 3D view it's of course not in the center anymore?


Currently, the only way to reset the center of rotation to a selected object is to 'fit' the object to the display.
I believe this is also on Mike's list of things to improve. I know it has been mentioned to him often. :)
Spacemice Wiki -- Input devices for a 3D world.

Spacemice / Blender Compatibility

chico
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 3:45 pm

Postby chico » Sat May 05, 2012 11:46 am

Tehrasha wrote:
chico wrote:Does anyone know how to set the navigators center to the center of an object after you pan in the 3D view it's of course not in the center anymore?


Currently, the only way to reset the center of rotation to a selected object is to 'fit' the object to the display.
I believe this is also on Mike's list of things to improve. I know it has been mentioned to him often. :)


Thanks for the answer Tehrasha. The "fit" button works just fine. *happy*

robothespian
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:17 pm

Access SpaceNavigator Values from python?

Postby robothespian » Tue May 22, 2012 6:07 pm

Is there a method to access SpaceNavigator (NDOF) values from Python?

Support in the 3D view port seems to work pretty well in Blender 2.63a (needs shift for pan sideways) - however we want to use it as a manipulator for setting joint rotations.

Should be able to do 3 at a time, great for animating objects with 3 rotational DOF's like a head.
- will save a lot of clicking.

Tried various set ups in the UI customisation - doesn't seem to be any way to map the NDOF device values to rotation manipulator.

BlendFly
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 4:04 am

Postby BlendFly » Thu May 24, 2012 4:11 am

I have The 3dx spacenavigator just, ANd i need to say very disapointed and anti logic that you cannot use the pan directions on the space navigator.
Upgraded from 2.62 to 2.63 still the same. You expect that you can do all exes with the spacenavigator, that makes blender so nice.

So the question is, is the pan function already implemented ? (without holding shift)
Or is there some setting wrong that keeps it from working like you expect it,
and how con i fix it so i can normal pan up/down , left/right with the space navigaator without pressing extra buttons ?

Tehrasha
Posts: 1264
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:21 am
Location: Iowa

Postby Tehrasha » Thu May 24, 2012 8:29 am

BlendFly wrote:So the question is, is the pan function already implemented ? (without holding shift)
Or is there some setting wrong that keeps it from working like you expect it,
and how con i fix it so i can normal pan up/down , left/right with the space navigaator without pressing extra buttons ?


No, its does not work that way yet. It is the top item on Mike's to-do list.
Spacemice Wiki -- Input devices for a 3D world.

Spacemice / Blender Compatibility

BlendFly
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 4:04 am

Postby BlendFly » Thu May 24, 2012 2:04 pm

Ok, thanks. Then i know its not me or blender :)
Its just after a few monts still not fixt. :roll:

chico
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 3:45 pm

Re: Spacenavigator tested with blender 2.44, 2.58 - 2.63

Postby chico » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:31 pm

chico wrote:Currently I've 2.63 installed but after my research I found out that "Tilt" works but the "Rol" function doesn't work anymore in 2.63 works fine with 2.62.
If anyone could confirm this case to make sure I'm not the only one who can "Tilt" but NOT "Rol" in 2.63.


I have to correct myself "Tilt" and "Rol" both work as I just found out that if you select in the "User Preferences -> Input -> Trackball" instead of "Turntable" both functions "Tilt" and "Rol" work.
Which I apparently didn't notice thatin the settings of 2.63 "Turbtable" is the default.

Sorry, about that.


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