Apricot terrain texturing / editing ?

Discussions and feedback around the Open Projects such as Orange (Elephants Dream), Peach (Big Buck Bunny), Apricot (Yo Frankie!)...

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Frederick
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:28 pm

Apricot terrain texturing / editing ?

Postby Frederick » Fri May 30, 2008 12:15 pm

Hi!

I work on my own little 3D game project and I really like what the apricot team has done so far !

Especially I like the terrain and I´d like to ask a few questions how it is done, if you don´t mind.

As it appears to me you use a 100% custom mesh, no heightmapping etc, and one single great texture !?
Then how do you edit it conveniently - do you use the texture paint tools ?
How would you paint the grass and then the footpath above ? Do you stamp brushes onto the textures ? I am really curious =)

If would be totally happy If somebody would share how to do a terrain like in the simple demo level.

Thank you!
Frederick

zymn
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 2:54 am

Postby zymn » Fri May 30, 2008 9:15 pm

demo level?!

where can i get this demo level?!

Frederick
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:28 pm

Postby Frederick » Fri May 30, 2008 9:58 pm

zymn wrote:demo level?!

where can i get this demo level?!


:D

Oh no, just this nice floating island the peach team uses for testing. I am referring to their screenshot - so nothing to play.

So, if anybody might give me a hint how to do such a nice terrain I would be grateful. I just need some help with my terrain. Do you use a single texture or some sort of texture blending, via blend textures (splatting ? Don´t know if that is possible inside blender =) I would guess single texture, but how to get a nice workflow with this ? How to "fill" an area with grass texture and then draw the pathway etc. on it ?

Looking forward to your replies,
Frederick

BrianT
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:11 am
Location: Norfolk, Virginia

Postby BrianT » Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:12 am

I don't know if they are using one big texture or not, but I doubt it. The maximum I'm able to get into the GE is 4096x4096 pixels, which is okay for small areas but definitely not large ones.
One thing I learned on a recent project for large landscapes was to cut the high resolution texture up into smaller tiles (like 1024x1024). The only problem with this is that I always had these ugly seams at the tiles. I came across a solution for this -I think from Jesterking (Nathan Leroy?) where instead of 1024x1024 tiles, use 1034x1034 tiles and then scale down uvLayout to not use the extra 10 pixels. The reason why was something like "the GE will smooth the pixels ove side-by-side textures together, which in effect, blurs the image producing an ugly seam." When you do the alternate method, the "smoothing" still occurs, but because you scaled down your UVLayout, you aren't actually putting the "smoothed" pixels on your model. The extra pixels are actually identical to the neighboring texture.

I read that explanation a long time ago and may have butchered it! But, the technique works great.

I don't know if Crystal Space has this issue. I tried searching for it and can't find it. But, Crystal Space documentation also recommends using *small* textures, and for any Open Gl app they always work best as a power of 2... 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048... because otherwise they will be scaled at runtime (though the extra 10 pixels didn't seem to affect this).

The largest *map* I have made with this technique was a collection of tiled aerial photographs (1034 x 1034 pixels), arranged in a 16 x 25 grid.

Have a nice day,
-Brian
Have a nice day,
-Brian

jesterKing
Site Admin
Posts: 1848
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 12:48 pm
Location: Finland

Postby jesterKing » Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:01 pm

BrianT wrote:I came across a solution for this -I think from Jesterking (Nathan Leroy?) where instead of 1024x1024 tiles, use 1034x1034 tiles and then scale down uvLayout to not use the extra 10 pixels. The reason why was something like "the GE will smooth the pixels ove side-by-side textures together, which in effect, blurs the image producing an ugly seam." When you do the alternate method, the "smoothing" still occurs, but because you scaled down your UVLayout, you aren't actually putting the "smoothed" pixels on your model. The extra pixels are actually identical to the neighboring texture.

I read that explanation a long time ago and may have butchered it! But, the technique works great.


I have only a very, very vague memory having talked about this aaaages ago, but I'm sure it was not I who posed the solution, I probably just relayed it. Btw, it's Nathan Letwory :)

/Nathan

ps. I do listen to Leroy Anderson, though ;)

Frederick
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:28 pm

Postby Frederick » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:17 pm

Hey Apricot-guys !

You simply rock and completely made my day, thank you very much ! It almost seems that the newest video-blog-entry is a top-notch answer to my question, although I assume that you may have done it anyway.
Thanks for taking the time to create the video clips and blog entries, I am always looking forward to the next entry.
The apricot branch will probably save me a lot of time because it seems I won't need a terrain editor. Well I have to see if I can fit that into my small engine =) That would save me a lot of work, sculpting tools for the terrain and texture painting - ugh lots of hard work =)

So texture splatting seems to be the method of choice. Looks totally awesome.

Also thanks for GLSL I have been waiting for this, since it was announced. Unfortunately the ambitious last attempt to include it has not been finished. For my needs it would be totally sufficient to paste vertex and fragment shaders into an editor dialog and have them applied to the view. I don't need a realtime assembly of material shaders to have a realtime preview of the final rendering.

@BrianT
I use a custom engine written in a C++/java mix so probably I won't have issues with texture seams, at least I strongly hope so, one never knows =)
Also I know of the power of two issue, so no problem here. It is likely that using some kind of a megatexture is too memory intensive and needs some form of sophisticated paging mechanism which loads and unloads textures in the needed mipmap (detail) level automatically. John Carmack is doing things like that in his new engine (id tech5 I believe), looks awesome cool. But stuff like that is above my head atm.


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