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chat icon An idea about an external 3D engine for Blender(by Curador3)

matt_e

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 6:21 pm
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 897
Argh! I was trying to clean up this topic by deleting some duplicate posts, when I deleted the whole topic by mistake! Please accept my apologies - now I feel really stupid. I've pasted the original posts below in their entirety. Embarassed

Last edited by matt_e on Tue Apr 29, 2003 6:24 pm; edited 2 times in total
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matt_e

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 6:22 pm
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 897
Curador3 wrote:

I was thinking a while back about how great Blender is and on top of that fact its Open Source and can even be said to sooner or later rival the technologies of others professional applications like 3ds max and Maya. Moving on from that fact I used to be a user of 3ds max and Power Render (see http://www.powerrender.com). Power Render is like an external 3D Engine which allows you to in a way piece together models from 3ds max, and add particles, game parts, and extra features, from an internal library dll, Power Render is open source but, at a large cost for many hobbyists, students. So what if we could build an external engine which is open source, that obviously isn't part of Blender and its CVS, but it works brilliantly with it. Therefore meaning there could be a resource for people out there where there is an open source SET of tools for creating games etc. at no cost. At the moment I think there are too little resources out there, or open source programs which fit together perfectly for people to learn from. I would be happy to be a main part in the development of this, along with others. I am no Guru or professional programmer (C++/C/VB), but I am willing to learn, and research in the process of the project.
Basically the fundamentals of the project would be to create a Static Link Library with a large full set of routines which developers can use in they're applications to simplify the development of games, and narrow the research into doing this. The library would come along with a set of tools to e.g. create a world, where imported buildings and models from Blender could be placed etc., then another tool to Export the .blend file format into a custom format for the 3D Engine, another tool that would load those custom format models that were exported from Blender which would allow animation frame rates and moves to be modified and added. This would make an excellent tool kit for many people, and not only would it be a benefit to users and developers which would like to learn from the project, anyone who wants to take part in this development and who thinks its a good idea can learn many new things in the process including myself.

Regards,

-Sam White
Email: YahooSpecials@aol.com
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matt_e

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 6:23 pm
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 897
leinad13 wrote:

I think you have the best idea out of everyone here, unforntunatly i think that due to most people who blender being a so called 'Artist' i really dont think they want to make games, they just want to make models and render them. I on the other hand really want to make games, i have tried base coding using (C++ and OpenGL, C++ and DirectX) i found them both so complicated because their functions are hard to remember because of their strange names. What i was thinking was, we could make a blender like UI that could be used to code OpenGL games, the code could be then compiled using an external renerer, such as MSVC, Borland, DJGPP, Mingw, Cygwin and GCC or just GCC. Whichever would be easier to port to other Operating systems. But i definatly dont plan or making a compiler :S . Anyway the UI could be like the old Blender Game Engine, or Different, whatever and the main point would be that it could use models from Blender as objects and players in the games. This would be a brilliant project, a UI for creating games in OpenGL.

Sorry i thinked i strayed from your idea a bit, because thinking about it now, it seems like you wanted a system sort of like lightwave, with a modeller and a renderer. After my exams in about 2 months i am going to seriously start a project which could make games in OpenGL, 3D and 2D using C++ so that the games themselves run as standalone and well.

Please post back your comments if your interested in this. I think i might go looking round on the interenet for people experienced in C++ and OpenGL and try and get them onboard becase im just a begginer in the grand scheme of things.

Great Idea, you have really inspired me.
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leinad13

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 10:28 pm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 219
O i see broken since i critised you about the blender UI, you decide to delete all the topics i post in is it. Crying or Very sad

Only joking dont worry about it. Very Happy
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Curador3

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:18 am
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 39
Sure, thats in some ways what I was thinking, is creating an engine, where you can use Blender Models in it as game characters etc., built onto a terrain which would be generated using our external engine. I also have exams in a couple of weeks, then I hope to start on this project with some people. Most 3D Engines around like Crystal Space are a set of applications which have animations as separate applications which are not like e.g. a level editor where the whole scene can be modified which I think would be the best way to go about this. Along with support for Blender models, it could be a good idea if we support other models like MD3, MD2, 3DS loading, which supports animation playback, animation generation and setting up new moves and animations for that character, one way would be to create two different Render animation files during the animation of Blender characters etc.
I was also thinking, wouldn't it be better for portability's sake, and open source's sake for people wanting to use the code, we could use something like Mesa3D or OpenGL SI.
About the Blender UI, it would be a good idea to use it because the most important reason, its portable and powerful. My other idea was we could use UI like Qt, but as far as I've seen its only supported by X11 and Windows, and it creates the UI as .ui framework files, not source code files, I seen this when I studied Jahshaka.
It would be a great idea if you can get other C++/OpenGL programmers to help us along with the project, that way we can develop it faster and it will be much more powerful.
What would you consider the best place to host this project? I suggest SourceForge for the beginning stages of the project.

Let me know of any updates about this.

-Sam
Email: YahooSpecials@aol.com
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Curador3

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:24 am
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 39
Sorry about that, I missed out the part 'old'. I haven't actually seen the old Blender 3D Game Engine, so I'm not sure about its actual flexibility, but I'll try to find out some things about it.

-Sam
Email: YahooSpecials@aol.com
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matt_e

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:40 am
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 897
Curador, the old Blender game engine is fully functional in Blender 2.25. You can download it here: http://www.blender3d.org/Download
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leinad13

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 12:26 pm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 219
I was also thinking about e-mailing some OpenGL game programmers so that we get their opinions about what the program would need and maybe a few technical hints as well, i've got some time 2night and so i will mail a few. I only know of these by searching round on the internet for OpenGL game programming using C++ when i was trying it a while ago. Ill mail them tonight, nd if we get any replies i will post them up on here.
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Curador3

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 12:43 pm
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 39
Thanks for that broken, I'll check it out.
---------------------------------------------------
leinad13, that'll be good if you can get some OpenGL programmers to help or at least give advice, I look forward to hearing the results.
What would you think about a project name?
- Reality Blender?
- B-3D?

Or something without Blender in it, I don't mind, anything that suits the project really. Confused
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Curador3

Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 8:09 am
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 39
I've got some physics working for Ocean Waves. Unlike many 3d engines etc. these waves aren't fake images that move like the water, the one I've got is actual moving textures. This can be seen when moving the camera just above the surface of the water. The Period of the wave and frequency can be changed etc. so its highly modifiable. That can be part of our physics engine for the Terrain, but then again I was thinking on putting that under the an environment button.
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leinad13

Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 8:25 am
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 219
Good work Curador3 i snet out about 5 e-mails to game programmers about the project and i am awaiting replies. What compiler and OS are you using? I have been using MSVC for creating my tests but im pretty sure that they should work with most compilers.
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Curador3

Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 12:36 pm
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 39
I also use the Microsoft Visual C++ Compiler (Version 6). Basically I think the best method of actually doing the engine is if we create the main code first e.g. like the OpenGL Physics for the ocean waves, then apply the User Interface that would be cross platform. It would also be good if we could actually make the project compatible for many other compilers, similar to Blender, where people can use MingW and also GCC + cygwin.
I'm not sure how we will go about creating the GUI, but wouldn't it be good if we created our own message handling methods for the application, similar to GHOST? Thats as far as I know the best method of creating a cross-platform GUI.
What name do you think would be a good name for the engine. I have some pretty good ideas for a logo for the name "Reality Blender".
I was just thinking, there wouldn't be a big problem in creating our code compatible with Mesa3D because since its a Implementation, it should be in many ways exactly the same.

Regards,

-Sam White
Email: YahooSpecials@aol.com
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leinad13

Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 1:51 pm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 219
'Reality Blender' sounds fine to me, at the moment im messing around with GLUT. Which is cross compatable with Linux because all we need to do is tell GLUT to initialize and create a window and it will deal with this for several OS's. Saves me more work Very Happy. We need to mix our work and decide on what we are going to do first. I think i would be rubish creating physics and things, but i could work on the GUI. Yes i agree that we write our own messgaer handling system, i'll start to look into that as well. One thing i really want to do with project is fully document the code as it is writen and try and keep it a bit cleaner than the Blender Source which i think is a mess. I'm going to write some button creating routines tonight and try and get them looking like blender buttons. One other thing i want to do is have the UI definding by scripts maybe XML. So that people can customize it to suit them.
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Curador3

Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 4:26 pm
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 39
Thats great, I'm also going to start working on a logo for the splash intro into the application Software Development Kit. Its good that you have a strong point in the GUI because cross-platform GUI is my weakpoint, and the model loading and physics is in many ways my stronger point. I think the best way at the moment while we start the project is to keep it offline for now, and get all the parts together. I'll start working on two separate parts of the project which will be 1 folder for the Model Loading code, another for the Physics, and so on... what I'll do is I'll make a list of the actual static labels, text boxes, button that will be needed, and you could find a way in which they would be suited in GUI looking form, that would be cross-platform and as best suited to a users needs when using a GUI.
For the splash intro logo, I'm going to create an image of green electricity flowing around, then maybe the blender logo with an R on top in a similar look, then "reality" added on to the "blender" which is shown on the blender splash.

Look forward to hearing more!

-Sam White
Email: YahooSpecials@aol.com
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leinad13

Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 9:46 pm
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 219
Ill start work on some buttons, menus, radio boxs, labels and other GUI elements. Although i dont ahve a strong point because this is all new to me. I'll try and get all the basic elements in one file, then have another file for creating specific things. Do you want me to look into creating a way of handling messages similar to GHOST?
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