Should the GUI remain the same, or should it be changed???

The interface, modeling, 3d editing tools, import/export, feature requests, etc

Moderators: jesterKing, stiv

Should the GUI remain the same, or should it be changed???

Yes it should be changed.
59
47%
No it should not be changed.
66
53%
 
Total votes: 125

dittohead
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 2:49 am

Should the GUI remain the same, or should it be changed???

Postby dittohead » Tue Oct 22, 2002 8:54 pm

This is a prelimenary poll to discuss and vote on what should happen to the interface.

THIS is NOT an official poll although findings may be used in the future.

i just want to know what you guiys want fot the interface.

________________________________________________________

MY opinion:

it should remain the same.

so no one gets confused if we start changing it. that way current tutorials remain accurate.
dittohead

nemesis
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 10:26 pm

Postby nemesis » Thu Oct 24, 2002 10:54 pm

DON'T change it. This is actually what I like best about Blender. Sure it looks very complicated when you first see it, but once you get a hang of it, you love it.

bob_dog
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 9:39 am

Postby bob_dog » Sat Oct 26, 2002 12:21 am

I think the wording of your question is a bit unclear. I voted that it should be changed, but let me qualify that: I like the interface of Blender very much, and I think that it's general look and feel should remain. There remains, however, room for improvement, and that involves change.

Haunt_House
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2002 9:03 am

Postby Haunt_House » Sat Oct 26, 2002 2:43 am

Well, I did the opposite. There should be some minor changes but I voted no, since I would never like it to devolve into an expected Interface a la Microsoft or Apple.

Please keep the quality of the Interface and please the newbie with quality tutorials to make its strengths more obvious. :arrow:

haunt_house

Saluk
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 6:52 am

Postby Saluk » Sat Oct 26, 2002 6:43 pm

I voted do not change it, because, well, I don't like change:) If the interface were "changed" then I wouldn't be able to use blender any more, unless it slowly changed to ween me away from the old interface. But the interface is the main reason I use blender in the first place. (well, and the game engine, but there are other game engines out there).

Now I do agree that there are some actions that might need some modification, and we will have to do something if we plan on incorporating any more features, but consider this more modifying the interface than changing the interface. Change just sounds too, big.

And I'm perfectly in favor of making the interface more customizable, so that those who WANT a changed interface can have it, as long as this DOESN'T affect the speed or usability of my chosen interface (blender classic).

rontarrant
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 12:28 pm

Re: Should the GUI remain the same, or should it be changed?

Postby rontarrant » Sun Oct 27, 2002 3:31 pm

dittohead wrote:This is a prelimenary poll to discuss and vote on what should happen to the interface.

so no one gets confused if we start changing it. that way current tutorials remain accurate.


I voted for change, but I'd like to qualify my vote.

I've taken several runs at learning Blender but I always come to a point where I throw my hands up in dispair and put it aside. Perhaps I'm too steeped in other 3D software to learn such a different approach as Blender takes. Blender is very much a departure from the norm (if such a thing exists).

So I'd like to suggest something that might satisfy both the seasoned Blender veteran and those who are new or struggling with it (like me).

I think one way to change Blender without actually changing it would be to add to the menu system.

Maya has 'mode' buttons the same as Blender does, just fewer of them. Each time you change modes in Maya, a different menu set is added to the right of the 'base' menu set. These 'mode menus' each expose a different set of commands applicable to the mode.

What if Blender did something similiar? Right now, the menus do very little as far as the nuts-and-bolts of user interface are concerned. That makes it wide open for expansion. By setting up a hierarchy of 'mode' menus and showing each item's shortcut key(s) the user can go for the obvious way of doing things (through using menus) or slowly learn all the shortcut keys.

With an approach like this, there are several benefits:

Benefit #1: Nothing has to change in the current user interface. Anyone who has climbed that steep learning curve can continue on without having to change their approach to using Blender.

Benefit #2: All up-to-date tutorials can stay exactly the way they are. With minimal updates to tutorials, they can reflect the new menu system as well.

Benefit #3: New users can get up and running far faster. They don't have to wade through tons of docs and tutorials just to get a green cube with a red light and an oblique camera angle.

Thanks for reading.

-Ron T.

mikasaari
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 1:04 pm
Contact:

Postby mikasaari » Mon Oct 28, 2002 1:16 pm

My opinion is that there is lots of improvement areas in Blender UI at the moment. This do not mean to UI layout but UI has lots of other stuff as well. The best area is event handling. At the moment it seems that the whole code has been wrapped on keyboard events which I hope will be changed in fore coming releases (my opinion). This would allow users to set their own short cuts. Also windowing to support multidisplay modes, so user could drag and drop the selected window to other display (Lotsa of work with the code it seems), etc.. The original layout is nice and easy to use, I wouldn't change that too much at all. And why not supporting dynamic widget sets, like themes and all that nice stuff which users now a days require. Everybody propably do not want to use those but why not to give possibility for those who want to see candy UIs ?

-Mika

photex
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 4:57 pm

Postby photex » Mon Oct 28, 2002 5:05 pm

I voted for change as well but I don't think it needs a serious overhaul.
I find that I am more productive in blender than most 3d apps but what about optionally providing things like manipulator handles or having a pop context box like houdini has for spinners. A channel box would be good too...or at least a similar pop-up like houdini's parameters box.
I miss those things when I'm working in blender.
More customization in general could be useful.

Bandoler
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 3:16 pm
Location: Somewhere between the 1 and the 0

Postby Bandoler » Mon Oct 28, 2002 7:45 pm

I've voted not to change it. But meaning that the current interface should stay, not, that other interfaces may not arise, via skinning or whatever.

A very big abstract layer should be defined between the interface and the actions blender can perform. If these actions are well structured, even it would be possible to add new features without having to touch the UI, the skins will know how (where) to add them in the interface. But only someone with broad knowledge of all blender features could give the first protoype for this interface that could separate the layers (UI and actions). These approach would be easy to use (automatically, in fact) in the Next-Gen Blender proposal because it already separates the UI layer.

(Bandoler)

Logan
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:39 am

Re: Should the GUI remain the same, or should it be changed?

Postby Logan » Tue Oct 29, 2002 3:42 am

rontarrant wrote:I voted for change, but I'd like to qualify my vote.

I've taken several runs at learning Blender but I always come to a point where I throw my hands up in dispair and put it aside. Perhaps I'm too steeped in other 3D software to learn such a different approach as Blender takes.


Your definately not alone on that one :-)

At this point in time the interface is not learnable at first glance (damn can't remember the word for it, i think its inter-something)

An interface something like 3DSMAX would be very cool. *puts on 50 flame retardant suits*

Why would it be cool you ask ...
  1. I like the tabbed tool bar, you can find everything on it, and it has pictures so if you don't know what a dodecatriangillion quadratic prism is, at least you can see what it looks like.
  2. You can actually undo stuff.
  3. When using 4 windows (top, side, front, 3d) they seem to flow better than blender split into 4 windows does.
  4. Environmental stuff (flames, smoke etc), not even sure if you can do these in blender.
  5. Blenders nurbs surfaces seem to be pretty hard to get into the right shape.

*puts on another 50 flame retardant suits*

Anyway just my opinion :-)

lisabeeren
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 9:48 am

applaus to Ron Tarrant

Postby lisabeeren » Tue Oct 29, 2002 4:13 am

Ron speaks wisdom above.

I was thinking a menu system (kind of like how right mouse clicking in most windows apps, brings up a context sensitive menu) but Blender has run out of mouse buttons... Rons suggestion is a good one.

A menu system is a good way of showing users what's possible to do where.

also
The current plugin situation... having to use that editor, is terrible.

... I'd like to be able to make the buttons larger, aswell. I like GTK+ (but I suspect that's a big job).

Dani
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 8:35 pm

Postby Dani » Tue Oct 29, 2002 3:12 pm

I wouldn't change it, just improve it, adding facilities for newbies and advanced users (such as creating your own type of panel, giving it a name, and being able to choose to add whatever functionality you need from a database refrencing ALL of blender's functions as well as there hotkeys which the user could choose to change... then having all this saved in the LAYOUT file)
BUT LEAVE THE ACTUAL ONE MORE OR LESS AS IS OR I WOULD THROUGH MYSELF INTO THE ETNA'S MOUTH! i'd go completely crazy! took me soo long to learn those fantastic hotkeys. (have you noticed ALL the keys are hot?!!)
So i guess I must tick "CHANGE IT" but not radically.

Dani

EDIT: this poll should have a "Just needs some improvements, no major changes" choice.

dreamerv3
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 10:30 am

Postby dreamerv3 » Tue Oct 29, 2002 9:02 pm

Its all open now I think a skinnable system will serve everyone's interests.

As far as tools go I think subdivision surfaces ala nendo/wings3D/3dsMax should be implemented, but this is back burner work compared with code cleanup and interface changes again architectural changes to allow skinability.

That and a total rewrite of the architecture, move to a pure modular system.

These three things would put blender on the radar for many more people including some post houses.

Thats all I have to say.

P.S. People if you want change you have to speak up for it!

forcefield
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 4:20 pm
Location: Bangor, Maine. USA
Contact:

I voted change...

Postby forcefield » Wed Oct 30, 2002 8:46 am

I think Blender is amazing, and the interface is part of that opinion. After three books and countless hours I finally have a clue what I am doing. But, that was when NaN held it and there was not time or money to consider the interface. Now Blender is open, and many eyes can look and change the code. I think it's time to consider making the interface better.

I REALLY want to change the edit mode. Vertex by vertex modeling is so hard when you keep selecting the vertexes on the opposite side (no I don't want to select and hide!).

browman
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2002 10:36 am

Postby browman » Fri Nov 01, 2002 10:48 am

I think it should stay the same, but I do think that the toolbox menu's need to be extended to allow access to all those essential 'features' that can currently only be accessed through the keyboard shortcuts...

Other than that, I love it. Perhaps a more windozey option would help to boost this tools popularity though. The more people who use blender the better in my opinion. That initial learning curve tends to drive people away.


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