Should the GUI remain the same, or should it be changed???

The interface, modeling, 3d editing tools, import/export, feature requests, etc

Moderators: jesterKing, stiv

Should the GUI remain the same, or should it be changed???

Yes it should be changed.
59
47%
No it should not be changed.
66
53%
 
Total votes: 125

matt_e
Posts: 898
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 4:32 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: ugly!

Postby matt_e » Wed Jan 08, 2003 9:25 am

If we want blender to be accessible to new users, and if we want to encourage more people to start learning blender (and of course we do, otherwise Blender will stagnate and die), then we must be receptive of their ideas. We (experienced users) must also try to see things from another perspective, rather than let our experience with working around Blender's incongruities and idiosyncracies cloud our judgements.

Telling people to learn the interface first isn't going to solve the problem of making it easier to learn.

ztonzy wrote:first, learn the interface a long while, then come back and tell us what is not good...as a fact, I thought in beginning it was kind of hard too...but when you learn it, you work fast in it...it is based on production speed !!!

btw, that could go for all newbies in here, sorry for sounding harsh,
but for giving good suggestions and feedback , You Need to Know
what You Talk about !!! sorry, the truth is damn hard...but it is :D

kaktuswasser
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 4:19 am

Postby kaktuswasser » Wed Jan 08, 2003 2:49 pm

why doesnt somebody just found a group which tests new interface additions, besides complaining about it?

greasyScott
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 6:43 am
Contact:

Who's with me?

Postby greasyScott » Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:28 am

kaktuswasser brings up a very good point. To form a group that will test new interface additions, I'd like to guage member interest in such a project.

Who out there would like to improve the usability of Blender? Send me a message. Drop me an email. Perhaps I will soon post a poll of my own.

I don't have much time to commit to such a project but I am at least willing to get the ball rolling.

Some sites on User Interface design:
http://www.useit.com/
http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/mac ... nes-2.html
http://www.acm.org/sigchi/
Good judgement
tends to precede
good fortune

Haunt_House
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2002 9:03 am

Re: keep it fast

Postby Haunt_House » Fri Jan 10, 2003 8:47 pm

alt wrote:But I would be happy for a quick list of all hotkeys (via space bar menu or so)


well, if you actually PRESS the space bar, you will find most of the options with the hotkeys written next to it :twisted:

not all keys, but there are quite complete pdfs in the net

Haunt_house

ox
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 11:01 pm

the future

Postby ox » Tue Jan 21, 2003 6:09 pm

Here are some of my ideas on the subject. I think they are pertinent even though I am a newbie.
#1 This is a perfect time to change things that need to be changed. No use locking the application into a dead end street or making the open source CG following, that is sure to come along, go through the rigors of relearning everything at a later time. Now is the time to set the sights on the future, set the standard and go there.
#2 Does the current interface accommodate flexibility in growth, expansion and adaptability to the CG technologies of the present AND the future? We want blender to be able to grow easily with the new information and skills that come along in the field of CG.
#3 This generation of blender should usher in the next. Use the current interface to work into the next interface(Blender 3)
#4 Let Blender set the standard. Much of proprietary design of interface is the result of attempts to justify high prices and also to lock people into a way of thinking. Blender is free (as in freedom). The interface should be entirely geared to ease of use, intuition and expansion.
#5 That said I would add that some of the symmetry incorporated in blender tasks are really cool. I know that certain keys are going to work in a certain fashion no matter what window I'm looking at.

Change often creates a sense of insecurity but sometimes that isn't all bad.
blah blah
:)

alt

Re: keep it fast

Postby alt » Wed Jan 22, 2003 1:57 am

Haunt_House wrote:well, if you actually PRESS the space bar, you will find most of the options with the hotkeys written next to it :twisted:

not all keys, but there are quite complete pdfs in the net


Yes. I have been aware of that for some years now.
But I put emphasis on the words "most" and "quite".

Why doesn't the program inform me about all actions I'm able to do? Why do I need to check .pdfs for actions that are hidden away in the program? And why only way to invoke those hidden actions is by cryptic key sequences?

As said before, there should be different ways to achieve the same goal.
It will make the program more adaptive to the varying needs of user: everyone can choose the approach they like most.

Cheers.

Dani
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 8:35 pm

Postby Dani » Wed Jan 22, 2003 3:07 pm

Hello! if anybody has interface changes to submit, I can beta test them if you want. I use Windows XP or 98, whichever. So in my spare time I can give a try at new GUIs.
I think it's quite exciting to see changes, but not ALL of them... this is why I offer myself as a gui-betatester!
So if a team is contituted, I would hapilly be part of it :)

BTW, I will mostly test modelling as I've mostly done modelling throughout the four last years and a little UVmapping but I can still test this too, however I have barely no animation experience such as character animation so I might no be very useful for that.

Cheers!
Dani

applicant_255
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 7:42 pm

Postby applicant_255 » Wed Jan 22, 2003 8:14 pm

I'm still learning the interface, and the options you have are bewildering. Most of them aren't functional at any one time. I'm very much a learn by doing person, and can't stand the idea of reading a tutorial and performing 40 steps to understand how step 35 works.

I want to know why i have an Extrude button, but when i click on it nothing happens.

I don't want to peice together tutorials to understand what all the buttons do and what they work on.

In games like starcraft, you're given around 9 or so buttons, most of them grayed out. when you mouse over the grayed out buttons, a little pop up pops up and tells you that you need X and Y before you can click this button.

I'd like to see popups telling me why nothing happens when i click buttons. Nothing intrusive with warning bells and an OK/Cancel button, but just litltle pop up help to steer me in the right direction.

I also printed off the full gamut of hotkeys and find myself constantly scanning through it looking for the right buttons to press. It's like being asked to memorize all the flight sim buttons without the keyboard overlay - sure once you've flown a few hundred hours with a keyboard pressing G before you try to land makes perfect sense, but without that overlay that tells you that g is for Gear as in Landing Gear, those first few landing attempts are pretty bumpy.

I'm not asking for a blender overlay, mind you. But some simple on line help, starting with the hotkeys would be nice. And not all the keys at once - just the once you can use, or are close to being able to use.

And possibly a little more detail on what these commands do.

"Make first base? Beauty Refill? Why can't i extrude???" This is how i've spent the last two hours.

The interface HAS to change. I'm not asking for a Max style interface, or even to move any of the buttons. But all these slight changes in button color and lack of response when i click 90% of the buttons has to go.

dreamerv3
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 10:30 am

Pretension!

Postby dreamerv3 » Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:45 am

Hmmm...
Lots of discussion about changing the GUI and the interface...

I see the votes for change are nearing parity with the votes for keeping the interface static.

I'm not going to argue anymore, I've moved beyond that, I'm starting to make the transition from
"I'm not a programmer" comments to "I am a programmer" posts. And let me tell you from an artists' viewpoint this is like running into a burning building to put out the fire.

In order to change blender, math has to become beautiful and intuitive, Now let me be frank, I never liked math in school, but I never hated it either, but as I see it know I'm tossing more and more of my presumptions about calculus and linear algebra out the window.

The funny part is C and C++ are a cinch to learn, it's all about logical thinking, I wonder as I dive deeper into the world of graphics programs, how exactly the intertwining of math and programming logic will present itself. It could be interpreted as genetically engineering graphics programs, because the DNA it seems is very similar for them all...

When I finally do get to the business of changing the interface (what part I can play in changing it anyhow), the result probably won't be blender and maybe thats a good thing, but it will be a kissing cousin to blender and maybe thats how it should be, as linux is to unix.

While I'm talking about this stuff, when I learn to play with interfaces, I'de sure love to mess with Gimp too, moving things around making it fullscreen like photoshop is with all the menu's at the top, that would be sooooo nice, and making the layers buttons look a bit less "boxy" and more sleek, perhaps give the widgets a more flowing look, well the ones that are related to each other at least. Yes I'd love to change the look of Gimp, the tools rock! The look in my opinion could be a bit more standard, and if it was, then perhaps a whole world of opportunity might open up for linux, if gimp looked like photoshop... Just imagine for the price of a support contract or for free if you've got a linux tech at hand or for home shops, if you've got some technical smarts and logical thought processes; you could have an OS faster and more stable than XP, All the features of Photoshop, all the Features of Office, and then some, and all this while lending support to the opensource movement. Blender is up and coming too, pretty soon people will have some tough choices to make, dump M$ for Apple or dump M$ for linux...

I'm so ecstatic I could cry....

What a beautiful world!

Edit(Response = applicant_255)
{
all I can say is;
you've gotta wait;
people are working;
on the interface;

don't be discouraged;
by the older users;
who tell you to;
learn for a year;

the problem is being worked on;
}

Edit(Response = the nay voters)
{
If you really want the program the way you'de like;
then take the hard-work route you tell the newer users to take;
learn to program and undo all the interface changes in the works;
if you can do it then do it;

less arguments from me and more coursework :twisted: ;

It's not about the guys who talk a lot;
It's about the ones who work on change;

}


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