Newbie: Undo ?

The interface, modeling, 3d editing tools, import/export, feature requests, etc

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jan-t
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Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 6:20 pm

Newbie: Undo ?

Postby jan-t » Wed Feb 19, 2003 6:26 pm

Hello everybody!

There's a high possibility that I will get a lot of flames for this question, but I still dare to ask it:

Is there any kind of "undo"-function in Blender? (I am using BlenderPublisher V 2.25 on IRIX).

Thank you!

Jan-T

ray_theray
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Postby ray_theray » Thu Feb 20, 2003 1:41 am

There is no unilateral "Undo" button in Blender, but a few limited version of it in certain functions. If you make a mistake in edit mode, pressing U will reload the data from the last time you entered edit mode. Pressing Ctrl-O reverts your entire blend file to the last saved state. Hopefully full undo will be a part of the next major release (2.50, maybe?).
-ray_theray

wavk
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Postby wavk » Thu Feb 20, 2003 1:48 pm

There's also another undo option. When You delete an object, Blender only deletes the link to the scene of that object. If you accidentally delete a model, add a plane to the scene, go to edit buttons and relink by changing the ME:Plane to the mesh you just deleted.

Only when saving a file, the objects that aren't linked to a scene anymore are permanently deleted.

Have fun,

Wybren van Keulen
Funny Farm

thornae
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Postby thornae » Thu Feb 20, 2003 4:16 pm

jan-t wrote:There's a high possibility that I will get a lot of flames for this question


I don't think you'll get too many flames, but I suspect there'll be more than a couple of chuckles of rueful recognition at your subject.

In brief, an "undo" function is one of the most requested features.

Interestingly, more experienced users tend not to be the ones requesting this, as they've learned to think differently. This is essentially why there isn't the ubiquitious "Edit->Undo" menu option in Blender - the original developers weren't working with win or mac, and weren't thinking in such paradigms.

However, someone in a tutorial pointed out that Blender actually teaches you the value of project organisation. They suggested you create a directory for each new Blender project, and then make sure you save every five minutes. More often if possible. Further, every time you've made a significant change - or every half hour, whichever comes first - you save a new version (eg project1.blend, project2.blend...) This means that at any point you can go back and see where you were along the development of your work. This also means that if you realise you've completely screwed up about five hours ago, you can go back to the version you saved then, not start all over...
Here's some useful info on doing this.

Anyway, be assured that you're definitely not alone in asking this (it's practically a Blender rite of passage - "where's the undo?")
(=

You might be able to relate to this.

Good luck, and happy Blending.
...because I can!

jan-t
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 6:20 pm

Postby jan-t » Thu Feb 20, 2003 9:28 pm

Thanks to all!

Well, project-management is one thing. I also think that if one wants to start a bigger project one's idea should be as precise as possible. In so far I agree that Blender teaches you the value of project-management.

The other thing is to easily get one step back. Especially for new Blender-users (like me; although I'm not new to the 3D-subject itself: I started about 8 years ago with a cheap program "Raytrace 2.0" and continued with 3D Studio to 3D Studio Max 3) it would be helpful. If you are playing around with all the unknown features you often end up with a "what was that?". There's the point when you'd just want to hit the undo-button (or press CTRL+Z ...) instead of wasting your time (sorry for that hard expression) with saving an loading.

I`d really appreciate this feature in the next version. I'm not into programming but I guess this is not a big deal (but more a matter of taste or a philosophical question).

Once again: Thank you and keep up the good work!

Jan-T

Michel
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Location: Somewhere below the rivers in Holland (but not Limburg)

Postby Michel » Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:17 pm

jan-t wrote:I`d really appreciate this feature in the next version. I'm not into programming but I guess this is not a big deal (but more a matter of taste or a philosophical question).

Hi,

well, unfortunately implementing an undo function _is_ a pretty big task. There are so-called 'design patterns' for implementing an unlimited undo/redo function, but these 'design patterns' are focussed only on Object Oriented languages. Unfortunately a large part of Blender is written in plain old C - which doesn't really have support for Object Orientation. Well, there are of course possibilities, but these are pretty difficult.

With regards,
Michel

matt_e
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Postby matt_e » Fri Feb 21, 2003 1:59 am

I had idea that at least may be useful to rescue deleted objects that have been unlinked but are still in memory. Perhaps there could be an 'object trash' or something - an interface that lists all the unlinked objects in the scene with a button for each one to bring them back into the scene?

LukeW
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Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 1:14 pm

Postby LukeW » Mon Mar 03, 2003 5:13 pm

What about if every time some change is made, it makes a copy of the object you changed... and you can set the number of levels of undo - which would be equal to the maximum number of old copies of objects there are. The different versions of the objects wouldn't be visible to the user though.
Even things like the user's currently selected object and the user's selected options in the buttons would be "objects" that would be copied.
One of the biggest changes you can make involves meshes, and they only have a max of 64,000 vertices or something, so it wouldn't take that much memory to copy the object.
Maybe the undo's could just use whatever memory is available and if more is needed, the memory is freed starting from the earliest copies to the most recent... the user could choose if 0% or 50%, etc of available memory is devoted to undo's.

BMD
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 4:56 am

Postby BMD » Sun Mar 09, 2003 4:57 am

it should have a history window displaying everything we did so far like in photoshop :D .



BMD

thornae
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Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2002 11:53 am

Postby thornae » Sun Mar 09, 2003 7:36 am

BMD wrote:it should have a history window displaying everything we did so far like in photoshop.


Excellent idea, and I'd love it to happen too (secondary function of the OOPS window, maybe?), but I suspect that such a thing would be very, very painful and non-trivial to implement.
When I get my BSD box back up, I'll start getting back into coding and see if I'm right.
...because I can!

joeri
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Postby joeri » Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:47 pm

Maya has a history per object.
This makes it possible to change every step in the process of modeling and still keep your model. But this is mostly usefull with nurbs and if you stay out of edit mode (manual vertex move).
Programms like ProE keep track of all the actions you take and everytime you load a file all the actions are redone to re-create the object. (O yes loading somewhat larger objects takes lots of time)

3d is NOT textediting.
Blender "blends" different area's of making an animation.
Modeling / Animating / Texturing(Shading) / Rendering / Editing.
All transparant into one editor and one file.

So by pressing ctrl-Z what should be undone? Last mouse move? Last object change? Last loading file? Who desides?

Blender has some "undo's", they are just not automated.
1. Material undo:
- copy current material into buffer (the arrow into yellow icon)
- funble with the material, not happy? copy buffer back into material.

2. Mesh edit undo:
- Tab into edit mode.
- funble with the mesh, not happy? Alt-U back the old mesh.

3. Ipo curve undo:
- same buffer system as material.

4. Text editors undo:
- famous alt-Z (alt-X and alt-C as well)

5. Objects undo:
- weird harddisk buffer system
{ctrl-w} {PlusSign} {Enter} (yes saved the file with an added number)
- fumble around with the objects, not happy? {ctrl-o} {enter}
Nice note on this, when NaN went banckrupt all the W keys in the content room where worn off.

But ofcourse what the user wants is; edit an object, render an image, change it's color, go to bed and have some sleep, then change back the object to it's old shape and color (it was better after all) by pressing ctrl-Z.

Happy implementing!


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