Blender has still crappy AA (OSA) ! ! !

Blender's renderer and external renderer export

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sten
Posts: 329
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 7:47 pm

Blender has still crappy AA (OSA) ! ! !

Postby sten » Thu Jan 16, 2003 10:55 am

Hey out there !

I wonder when any developer will take on he or she
the task to fix Blender's crappy AA(OSA-button) so that
it can give us a decent renders...for now they look awfull !! :evil:

and since it is open source why can't any developer peek into it,
it has been this as long as I can remember !!!

getting tired of it.... :cry:

BgDM
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 3:55 pm

Postby BgDM » Thu Jan 16, 2003 2:36 pm

The AA definitely needs an overhaul. Rendering 2-3 times larger and then scaling in GIMP/PS seems to help in this area, but if it could be skipped, it would be nice.

BgDM
Reality is an illusion caused by lack of alcohol.

arnaud
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 10:51 pm

Re: Blender has still crappy AA (OSA) ! ! !

Postby arnaud » Tue Jan 28, 2003 5:58 pm

ztonzy wrote:...Blender's crappy AA(OSA-button) so that
it can give us a decent renders...for now they look awfull !!


Until I discovered the OSA button and how to use it, I was concerned, but the problem was I, not Blender. It works very well AS IS, if you set your rendering parameters properly. What BgDM writes suggests more a mis-understanding of the OSA function than a problem with Blender.

If it's not broken, don't fix it.

Cheers!

Arnaud

sten
Posts: 329
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 7:47 pm

Re: Blender has still crappy AA (OSA) ! ! !

Postby sten » Tue Jan 28, 2003 6:39 pm

arnaud wrote:
ztonzy wrote:...Blender's crappy AA(OSA-button) so that
it can give us a decent renders...for now they look awfull !!


Until I discovered the OSA button and how to use it, I was concerned, but the problem was I, not Blender. It works very well AS IS, if you set your rendering parameters properly. What BgDM writes suggests more a mis-understanding of the OSA function than a problem with Blender.

If it's not broken, don't fix it.

Cheers!

Arnaud


heh :?

I don't know what you know about Blender's render...they are loaded with AA artifacts, grab a magnifyingglass and take a better look,
especially when there are smooth and round models/objects!

this is well known through the Blender community, and I have never seen such bad AA from a 3D tool, so I don't know where you Arnaudwill get at this, surely this must be fixed...and the only workaround is as BgDM put it...render it huge and scale it down in a imageeditor, and sometimes there even AA artifacts in those fixed images ... aahemm :!:

it is not broken, it is NOT Goood Enough !! to be a 3D tool that will go high for the market...this is one of Blender's drawback !! :evil:

yours,

eeshlo
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 10:02 pm

Postby eeshlo » Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:28 pm

You can considerably improve AA by making use of motionblur, or even just use motionblur. This works for stills, nothing has to move, just try something you know produces not so good AA results (like a black square on a white world background, slightly rotated so you get nice 'jaggies') and do a comparison with and without motionblur switched on, you will find that the one with motionblur will look much better.

arnaud
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 10:51 pm

Postby arnaud » Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:57 pm

ztonzy, I have seen your site (that's great that you have tuts). And you do great work, and I respect it. You probably know something I don't. I can only speak from experience, and I have never had the problem, no matter how complex my scene is.

But, as suggested, I tried a white plane on a black background, rendered to TGA (probably the most unforgiving rendering). Seen at 100% (no scaling either way), there is no jagginess at all, so I don't know what you guys refer to. Could it be a video-card related issue? Zooming in or out will cause problem, but isn't that to be expected? I would need to play with 3DMax to compare apples with apples. So, I don't know how fair this is... My experience has always been very good with picture seen at 100%, that's all.

I guess that zooming out can only downgrade the quality of a picture, since it amounts to droping pixel or averaging them out, without control... My 2 cents.

Cheers!

Arnaud

Caronte
Posts: 521
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 12:53 am
Location: Valencia-Spain-Europe

Re: Blender has still crappy AA (OSA) ! ! !

Postby Caronte » Wed Jan 29, 2003 2:21 am

[quote="ztonzy
heh :?
this is well known through the Blender community, and I have never seen such bad AA from a 3D tool, so I don't know where you Arnaudwill get at this, surely this must be fixed...and the only workaround is as BgDM put it...render it huge and scale it down in a imageeditor, and sometimes there even AA artifacts in those fixed images ... aahemm :!:
it is not broken, it is NOT Goood Enough !! to be a 3D tool that will go high for the market...this is one of Blender's drawback !! :evil:
yours,[/quote]

8) The Blender AA is very poor.
:o Everyone on the Blender community with a good domain of Blender Know it.
:roll: I was seen to many cars with her radiators aliased, many rape guitars aliased too and things like that.

:? OSA only have 5 buttons (you can't tune more).

On the net are many sources for AA routines, I don´t know why this old metod is here from the begin without change. :(

I understand you very well :wink:
Caronte.
"Some Day, All Will Be Digital"
http://www.nicodigital.com

cessen
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:43 pm

Postby cessen » Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:14 am

You can considerably improve AA by making use of motionblur, or even just use motionblur.


Yes. That is the equivilant of increasing to the number of AA samples. Rendering a still-image in blender with 16-sample OSA and motion blur is the equivilant of 256-sample OSA (doing the same thing with 5-sample is like 25-sample OSA, etc.).

However, the AA deficiency is not, infact, with the number of samples (in most cases, anyway). The problem is with the AA-filter used.

(An AA-filter determines how much a given sample contributes to the final pixel color, based on that samples position.)

Blender, I believe, currently uses the box-filter, which is the equivilant of a simple averaging of a pixel's samples. Better filters allow the surrounding pixel's samples to effect the pixel a little as well.

Of course, there is no "perfect" filter that will be best for all images. In fact, sometimes the box-filter is the best filter. But there are filters out there that are better for a larger range of images.

rwenzlaff
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 2:26 pm

Postby rwenzlaff » Wed Feb 05, 2003 4:02 am

And of course the lowest MBlur setting is 5, which takes 5 times the render time.

Doubling the resolution in both x & y (and later scaling) only takes 4x the render time.

Bob


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