MacBook + Leopard interface speed issue

General discussion about the development of the open source Blender

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tsgfilmwerks
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MacBook + Leopard interface speed issue

Post by tsgfilmwerks » Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:09 pm

Just a notice; for anyone who owns a MacBook and is planning on or has already bought Leopard, there is a serious lag in the Blender interface. The rendering engine seems to be unaffected, though the game engine, while working at a steady 60 fps, reports that 40% of the computer's processor is being used on an "overhead" process.

If the interface lag is too much to bear, here are two possible solutions: downgrade to tiger or use a virtual machine (boot camp, parallels, etc.) to emulate windows.

NielsBlender

Re: MacBook + Leopard interface speed issue

Post by NielsBlender » Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:00 pm

tsgfilmwerks wrote:downgrade to tiger
Huh? You already downgraded to Leopard. :D

Niels

tsgfilmwerks
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Re: MacBook + Leopard interface speed issue

Post by tsgfilmwerks » Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:50 am

NielsBlender wrote:
tsgfilmwerks wrote:downgrade to tiger
Huh? You already downgraded to Leopard. :D

Niels
Umm... I don't get it. Anyway, is this being addressed by any of the developers for the next version?

NielsBlender

Re: MacBook + Leopard interface speed issue

Post by NielsBlender » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:09 pm

tsgfilmwerks wrote:
NielsBlender wrote:
tsgfilmwerks wrote:downgrade to tiger
Huh? You already downgraded to Leopard. :D

Niels
Umm... I don't get it.
A little ironic gag, since Blender uses standard openGL for the interface and if Leopard (not Blender) changed C-standards or the GraphicDisplayDriver doesn't support openGL(or not downwards compatible) it is most likely it doesn't work... That makes Leopard 'newer', but not the upgrade.
tsgfilmwerks wrote:Anyway, is this being addressed by any of the developers for the next version?
Here's some of the links I found for you:
http://projects.blender.org/tracker/?gr ... l&aid=7768
http://projects.blender.org/tracker/?gr ... l&aid=7996
http://projects.blender.org/tracker/?gr ... l&aid=8023

Niels

stiv
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Re: MacBook + Leopard interface speed issue

Post by stiv » Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:00 pm

tsgfilmwerks wrote:Umm... I don't get it. Anyway, is this being addressed by any of the developers for the next version?
Niels is often...inscrutable.

This sounds like an OpenGL problem with Leopard. Not the first time Apple has trouble. One OSX release had completely b0rked OpenGL support. Any fix will come from them.

If you are using fancy compositor window manager, either don't or try turning off features. Maybe a different driver? You have not mentioned what video card.

woodrough
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Post by woodrough » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:03 pm

what does it take to get a fix for the macbook around here!

There has gota be some sort of driver/graphical over ride in the next SVN release that macbook'ers can use. I doubt apple will have a graphical patch anytime soon...

and its definitely established that the problem is opengl driver related (?)... has anyone narrowed it down further?
-kyle

apoclypse
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Post by apoclypse » Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:45 pm

Well, I know Leopard and the Santa Rosa based MBP's with the Nvidia cards have way too many issues with opengl. The nvidia drivers fir the MBP are awful and in leopard there is significant lag in anything 3d related. Even the fancy dock and stacks have significant drops in framerate. If you have one of these MBP's your best best is to start the opengl profiler that comes with xcode, update it to the latest version, the run it. Once you run it, run blender from the opengl profiler (hint: the plus button), click on launch settings and change the driver to use the radeon driver as opposed to the Nvidia drivers. This works for most issues with that particular MBP with the nvidia drivers, which apple screwed up totally.

If you can wait Apple is supposed to release the latest version of Leopard soon (supposedly within a week or so). I would hold off, update when it comes out and see if that issue goes away after the update before you downgrade to tiger (I have almost downgraded like twice already, but it was more due to the sluggishness of the UI while a freaking Mac Mini, which is slower and with a crappier video card than mine ran faster and smoother than my uber expensive laptop with all the fixin's. Apple pisses me off sometimes).

tsgfilmwerks
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Post by tsgfilmwerks » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:59 am

Are any of the blender developers working on this? I don't mean to be rude, but Windows XP is a little too expensive, and I'm not sure if I can safely downgrade back to Tiger.

stiv
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Post by stiv » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:24 am

Are any of the blender developers working on this?
No, it is an Apple problem. Bug them about it.

Note: you might have better luck if you can switch to software opengl. For some other platforms with crappy performance that works better.

woodrough
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Post by woodrough » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:05 am

so its definitely Apples problem...
but what has been confusing me for the longest time was, what makes blender so different than all the other programs that utilize opengl.

so far Blender is the only application that doesn't transfer well from tiger to leopard.
-kyle

woodrough
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Post by woodrough » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:31 am

so the highly anticipated 10.5.2 came out today!
after installing the new update

nothing changed with my blender speeds...
still sluggish.
does it mean that its still Apples fault?

did anyone get any luck out of 10.5.2 update?
-kyle

tsgfilmwerks
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Post by tsgfilmwerks » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:41 am

The "update" that Apple released (10.5.2) has not solved this problem. I did not pay 1400 dollars for a computer that is internally dependent on a premature system (Meaning: I cannot downgrade to 10.4), and I sure as hell won't pay 200 dollars to run a free program on Windows XP or Vista.

Apple might not fix this anytime soon, so again, are any Blender Developers working on a solution? Any kind of feedback would be appreciated.

And again this problem is only confined to MacMinis and MacBooks that use Leopard. If you have a different Mac (or a MacMini or MacBook with Tiger), and blender works fine, then by all means post here. This topic is totally relevant to you.

LetterRip
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Post by LetterRip » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:23 am

Did you install the Leopard graphics update (seperate from the 10.5.2 update)

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/ ... ate10.html

LetterRip

SirDude
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Post by SirDude » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:25 pm

Graphics update does not help...

I'll look into it but I'm sort of a mac newbie as far as mac specific programming goes. I think were still at the mercy of apple for this
though. I'll see if I can't come up with something though.

SirDude
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Post by SirDude » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:21 pm

Interesting Update.

I ran the OpenGL profiler on blender 2.45 and If I click on Launch
Settings and change it to use Apple Software Renderer
its very fast....

Not sure how to apply that to the application so it always opens
up like that....

I'll post more here if I find anything out. Still palying with the profiler to
see if I can figure out what the heck is going on... (Trying to
run a trace and haven't figured out how to do it yet...)

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