MacBook + Leopard interface speed issue

General discussion about the development of the open source Blender

Moderators: jesterKing, stiv

ysvry
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Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:28 pm

Post by ysvry » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:07 pm

well thats the price you pay for believing HYPE.
better start whining so u can run Blender in a simulated windos os. lol

PapaRaven
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Location: Pacific NW, USA

Post by PapaRaven » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:52 pm

I was reluctant to downgrade from Leopard, on my black MacBook, because I *really* love the Spaces functionality. But now that I bit the bullet and downgraded to Tiger (a semi-painless process) I am *so* glad that I did! I will continue to miss Spaces, but I still run enough Linux boxes that they can provide the multi-desktop fix whenever I am really fiening/jonezing for that rich spread-out-ness. And pressing F9 will sufficiently do the trick on my Tiger-Mac.

That said, I am a Blender pre-noob but an old-timer in the computer industry. My GMA 950 MacBook is new enough that Apple and Intel should have communicated well enough about the OpenGL implementation on this hardware to realize that customers would run powerful OpenGL-based software. At this point Leopard would literally need to have some of its functionality, in the eye-candy realm, reworked with an off-switch in order to make the Blender (and also Poser 7, BTW) users happy with Apple's new OS X iteration. [Arguably] Windowz Vista has the advantage that the eye-candy-toy-trash can be clicked-off, though with the added burden of being more complicated than a game of three-dimensional-chess (and not in the least bit fun).

Apple is not stupid nor is it a malicious business, but it needs to play nicely with corporations which are at least as arrogant as themselves.

:idea: The take-away is: If you have not grown too emotionally attached to Leopard and you want to run OpenGL, then it is better to chuck the wad that you spent on Leopard than to upgrade yourself to a newer Mac laptop. Tiger *was* the longest running OS X version, after all. :wink:

Sonic9jct
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Post by Sonic9jct » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:31 am

davidlandwehr wrote:
DownshiftDX wrote:
davidlandwehr wrote:This is a dup from blenderartists:

I am getting told "forbidden" from access. Is there something different from the two other builds to download?
Yes this build is different. I think a trailing. Sneaked in the url and it should work without it: http://landwehr.dk/blender3.zip
Wow! This build has solved every problem I've been having so far!
Great job man, we are in your eternal debt

tsgfilmwerks
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Post by tsgfilmwerks » Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:42 am

If by eternal, you mean until 2.46 comes out (which was a while ago), then you're a little late.

Not to say I haven't been using the same build for the last few months. Thanks davidlandwehr. And a special thanks for nothing to the official blender developers (who are NOT the same as forum moderators).
Sonic9jct wrote: Wow! This build has solved every problem I've been having so far!
Great job man, we are in your eternal debt

jesterKing
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Location: Finland

Post by jesterKing » Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:56 am

tsgfilmwerks wrote:And a special thanks for nothing to the official blender developers (who are NOT the same as forum moderators).
Both as forum admin, moderator and (official) blender developer I kindly ask and strongly urge you to make this your last message of this kind.

/Nathan

tsgfilmwerks
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Post by tsgfilmwerks » Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:00 pm

Well I would try out the new features of 2.46 & the Apricot builds rather than waste people's time here, but I can't use any official builds without wanting to rip my head off.

And "jesterKing," I don't remember ever speaking to you in any of the forums that I have posted in. While that comment was certainly one of the many impolite comments I have posted in these forums, it was not directed at you.

Furthermore, unless there is official word in the announcements or news headlines that the blender developers have even acknowledged this problem and are attempting to deal with it (either by fixing it themselves or officially contacting Apple to fix it), I don't see any reason that I should stop these posts. They are not coming in on a daily basis, with an exception to replies like this one.

jesterKing wrote: Both as forum admin, moderator and (official) blender developer I kindly ask and strongly urge you to make this your last message of this kind.
/Nathan

stiv
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Post by stiv » Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:41 pm

tsgfilmwerks wrote:...I don't see any reason that I should stop these posts. ...
Allow me to disabuse you of that notion. Simply put, we are tired of both your whining and veiled insults. Any more and you are gone.

Take the matter up with Apple. They are the ones that released a buggy opengl driver. They did it once before. Eventually, they fixed it. I am reasonably confident they will again.

In the meantime, take your story somewhere else.

-- moderator

tsgfilmwerks
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Post by tsgfilmwerks » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:19 pm

I am saying that the blender developers would have a more effective voice if they contacted apple.

And it is very easy to call this whining whenever you have no problems using blender.
stiv wrote:
tsgfilmwerks wrote:...I don't see any reason that I should stop these posts. ...
Allow me to disabuse you of that notion. Simply put, we are tired of both your whining and veiled insults. Any more and you are gone.

Take the matter up with Apple. They are the ones that released a buggy opengl driver. They did it once before. Eventually, they fixed it. I am reasonably confident they will again.

In the meantime, take your story somewhere else.

-- moderator

galenb
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Location: Portland, Oregon, USA

Post by galenb » Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:18 pm

Hey Guys, I'm new to Bender and I have a MacBook. First off, I have the same issue here with the (unbearable) interface slowdown. I haven't had any crashes yet so I don't have that issue (Which seems weird to me).

Second, I don't understand how it is that all the other 3D programs I have run fine but Blender doesn't? I use Modo almost every evening here at home and I'm also a beta tester for Cinema 4D. Both programs run great. I also use Modo on a high-end PC at work so I know what it feels like to have it running at top speed. It doesn't seem as likely to me that it's Apple's fault when other 3D programs run fine?

edit: just tried that special build and yep, it works great! Thanks!!

tsgfilmwerks
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Post by tsgfilmwerks » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:49 am

Modo and the other programs can hire professionals to code and optimize the program for the system. Blender users are the developers who optimize this program for free. For 6 systems, simultaneously.

Of course, the only macs which are affected are the ones that can be bought on the same budget as blender. The alternatives, besides BootCamp and Linux, are equally expensive.
galenb wrote:Hey Guys, I'm new to Bender and I have a MacBook. First off, I have the same issue here with the (unbearable) interface slowdown. I haven't had any crashes yet so I don't have that issue (Which seems weird to me).

Second, I don't understand how it is that all the other 3D programs I have run fine but Blender doesn't? I use Modo almost every evening here at home and I'm also a beta tester for Cinema 4D. Both programs run great. I also use Modo on a high-end PC at work so I know what it feels like to have it running at top speed. It doesn't seem as likely to me that it's Apple's fault when other 3D programs run fine?

edit: just tried that special build and yep, it works great! Thanks!!

caravaggio77
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Post by caravaggio77 » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:31 pm

ysvry wrote:well thats the price you pay for believing HYPE.
better start whining so u can run Blender in a simulated windos os. lol
I am using Macs since 1993, so I cannot speak in terms of "believing" and "hype". Blender never made problems under OSX before, it started with "Leopard". As far as I know, Windows and Blender is not a perfect combination too.

stiv
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Post by stiv » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:07 pm

Let's try not to reply to childish spammy posts from half a year ago.

For the record, a previous version of OSX (don't rember which exactly) came with a bugged version of OpenGL. Apple fixed it in the next release.

tsgfilmwerks
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Post by tsgfilmwerks » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:23 am

stiv wrote:For the record, a previous version of OSX (don't rember which exactly) came with a bugged version of OpenGL. Apple fixed it in the next release.
No offense, but "for the record," after 4 system updates and nearly a year of waiting, Leopard's communication with integrated graphics chips has seemingly become progressively worse (especially with the latest one). Not to mention that Apple has more "important" things to develop, like the iPhone. However, I've heard a rumor that blender 2.5 will be built, to some extent, without pixel double-buffering.

Apple seems to keep system development excessively secretive, so its not easy to tell if Apple has been working to fix these problems. However, it would be nice to have some reassurance from the developers for the OSX port that the problem is being investigated. This might seem [very] redundant for me to say, but on Apple's side there has been controversy with these wonderful "who's to blame" arguments.

Just to state where I'm standing, I'm kind of agreeing with stiv that this was Apple's fault, though my faith in their ability to fix their mistakes is next to nonexistent.

stiv
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Post by stiv » Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:01 pm

A little grist for your grievance mill from an IRC conversation on #blendercoders:
[10:56] <NAME DELETED> sure... yesterday I met a apple software eng. And showed him the issue with intel video cards and blender... He wasn't able to help me in the airport but was a nice guy :) We checked the logs and looked at various things... his conclusion was it's definately the intel driver.... (I know not really news)
Historical note: Previous OpenGL problem was with OS X 10.4.3. Apple fixed it in the 10.4.4 release.

tsgfilmwerks
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Post by tsgfilmwerks » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:05 pm

I hope so. At least they know there is a problem by making the new macbooks have nvidia chips.

...Unless that's their idea of a "fix"...

Besides, what you're referring to was fixed within one update. This bug has been left unfixed for every version of Mac OS 10.5.x. People have been waiting for over a year, and Apple is too busy with their iPhones and the loss of their messiah; Steve Jobs.
stiv wrote:A little grist for your grievance mill from an IRC conversation on #blendercoders:
[10:56] <NAME DELETED> sure... yesterday I met a apple software eng. And showed him the issue with intel video cards and blender... He wasn't able to help me in the airport but was a nice guy :) We checked the logs and looked at various things... his conclusion was it's definately the intel driver.... (I know not really news)
Historical note: Previous OpenGL problem was with OS X 10.4.3. Apple fixed it in the 10.4.4 release.

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