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OSX Aqua blender GUI

Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 4:43 am
by Money_YaY!
AQUA ! OSX BLENDER !
sort of.

It needs LOTS of work I mean LOTS.

What I need from you peeps is to tell me what to hack in the NIB code.
or what ever. I am useing Interface Builder. It has some weird sizeing things.
All details are in pdf file

help meeeeeee. ....
...
^v^

www.aprilcolo.com/bunny/thepowwow.sit

seee I help out. Still a script kiddee but, eh

Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 3:56 am
by Money_YaY!
I guess not. Oh well I will post an update soon . But like I said I still
need help. If ya can.

^v^

Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 6:11 pm
by cgul
Well here is some moral support :)!!! Goo..go!!! Go!!! However, how the heck are you going to get all those tiny buttons aquafied?

Cheers
cgul

Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 8:40 pm
by Money_YaY!
simple. A lot of asprin and advils.

Thankyou
^v^ getting there

Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 9:21 pm
by cgul
Dude. Could you find another place for that file. Yer domain name doesn't seem to be resolving for me.

Cheers Man.

Hey do you have any code kicking around?

Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 9:25 pm
by cgul
oooh It is back now :)

Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 9:43 pm
by cgul
Here is some feedback after looking at your notes and .NIB

You have done a lot of work to create, the nib. Good work.

Here are some of the issues. What is your impetus to make an aqua interface?

It looks like you will have to violate the aqua guidelines to create a proper interface for the thing, what with the buttons having to be very close together etc...

If you are thinking of adding a flash interface (as per your notes) why would you go aqua first?

Anyhoo..just want to know where your head is at on your project helps people get excited (or disuaded) and helps us for constructive comments for ya.

My thoughts at this point in time, until i have heard more, is that the interface for blender is VERY dense and wouldn't directly translate well to the aqua interface if you are trying to just "aquafy" it. I think that you would have to re-structure the entire interface to make it more mac like and to distribute the functionality accordingly.

Oh well..just thought I would share.

cheers
Jcgul

Posted: Thu May 29, 2003 12:38 am
by Money_YaY!
cool I have a helper!

Ok my true plan is to lure a Mac addict into the fray with the Aqua
interface. As seeing right now there is barely just about 10-20 OSX
users that are here using blender on all of the boards.

I figure that it is the as they say "ugly" interface.
I could care less about the interface colors and bevels. But it
would be cool to mod the resources later, with it being Aqua.

And seeing how it looked like somebody had to start on it. That
is that.
The issues at hand so far currently.
I found out how to put split views in. That took some searching.
Now all that I can not figure out is how to use a Custom View widget
to place hold for another window. Like say the 3d view window.

There is not enough space on my screen to make the entire interface in
one window. Besides it is to slow like that.

I was building it all in Real Basic but had to stop. Realizing that a it was to
slow of an app
b it would not port well at all
c 500$$$$

The one good thing real had was that I could control the size of the buttons.

But I am willing to hack the .nib files to make them resize like blender.
Aqua guidelines are nice but to strict. And I can not place images in
the tab buttons otherwise.
PLUS I was planning a pull out drawl

Pleeeeeeaseeeee help if ya can . I need to figure out how to use
Custom View as a place holder. Please give a demo file to show that bit works.

I searched ALL over the cocoa dev boards , and now have to ask them
the question. But as I read the things they usually hate answering simple
questions.

^v^

Posted: Thu May 29, 2003 5:41 pm
by cgul
Hey Money I am at best a novice Aqua boy. I am currently a WebObjects developer by trade and I hack around with aqua when I get a chance. So I am not the guy to ask about those complex interface coding things.

Good luck with it, I would suggest trying to ADD aqua to areas where it makes sense...'cause the current struture maps well on to t he tutorials and other aids for the novice user.

Tough issues....

:)

More moral support

Posted: Thu May 29, 2003 6:46 pm
by knoxer
I've got some more moral support for you :D

There was a thread a while back on consolidating some of the related commands into dropdown menus, etc... I'll see if I can find it... Here it is, I think:

http://www.blender.org/modules.php?op=m ... opic&t=799

You may need to (or want to) do some of what they discuss if you're going to fit everything in using Aqua buttons.

I'm available to test things, but I'm not a very experienced Blender user, so I wouldn't be able to get too in depth with my testing.

Unfortunately I don't know the first thing about programming, so I can't help you there.

Posted: Thu May 29, 2003 7:48 pm
by Ender
cgul wrote:My thoughts at this point in time, until i have heard more, is that the interface for blender is VERY dense and wouldn't directly translate well to the aqua interface if you are trying to just "aquafy" it. I think that you would have to re-structure the entire interface to make it more mac like and to distribute the functionality accordingly.
I agree with this completely... if you try to take Blender’s current UI and turn everything into Aqua, it’s going to look like a cluttered mess... and even if and when the UI is translated to a nice, Mac-like interface, it will be completely different from the Windows/*nix versions, thereby making it much more difficult for users with ‘Aqua’ Blender to get help from others with the ‘regular’ version. There are a lot of tutorials out there that rely on screenshots of settings and the like to tell the user what to do... and while a more intuitive, Aqua GUI might be more intuitive at first to novice users (heh... myself included :wink: ), it would also make it more difficult to get help from others who are used to dealing efficiently with Blender’s cryptic buttons and such.

And to be quite honest... I’m not sure an Aqua UI belongs in an app like Blender. Look at Apple’s own Final Cut Pro or Shake. These are pro video editing apps (different from 3D, of course, but hear me out) and they use a very non-standard GUI compared to Apple’s ‘consumer’ products. Why? It seems to me that their strategy here is to minimize the distraction and interference of the UI in the user’s work. Aqua is a ‘big’ GUI—it favors lots of spacing, explanatory text, etc. so the novice user feels at home with a program. This is generally a good thing but I just don’t think it would work well with a program like Blender whose current interface is geared more toward efficiency than intuitiveness—heck, it uses almost every key on the keyboard for commands or context menus; what Aqua-compliant app would ever do that?

Sorry if I got a little carried away here..

Anyhow, I’m not trying to suggest that there’s no point in trying to make an Aqua UI for Blender...just, I guess, that it would be more challenging than your average app to create a usable Aqua interface.

So anyway..on that nice optimistic note :lol: ..Unfortunately I can’t seem to open your nib file (probably a side effect of me still being stuck in OS 10.1.5 :evil: ), but as far as your Custom View problem goes.. I’m not exactly an experienced programmer myself, but after looking around Apple’s developer site, it seems you have to create a subclass of NSView, which should point the class that controls whatever you want in the view. You could try looking here for more information. This page was written with Java in mind but I think (hope) it might be helpful.

Posted: Thu May 29, 2003 8:46 pm
by knoxer
Ender makes some good points about the interface.

Maybe (at least for the time being) you should give your project a different name than Blender and just focus on making a simplified "Blender compatible" program. Then you don't have to worry about implementing every feature exactly the way that Blender has.

As long as it keeps the .blend format, people can transfer their projects to the real Blender when they reach the limits of this app... just a thought.

Then maybe some day, if everything is implemented in a coparable way to Blender it can become Aqua Blender...

Posted: Fri May 30, 2003 4:48 am
by matt_e
Not too be too much of a downer too, but there are also additional problems with converting Blender to aqua - Blender doesn't work the same way as most aqua apps. If you were going to convert Blender to use aqua, you'd have to lose a lot of functionality such as the 'drag a numbut to increase/decrease the value' feature. It would be very unwise to hack the aqua stuff to allow such a feature, because it would totally break the UI consistency - if it looks like a standard aqua button, it should act like a standard aqua button too, otherwise it'll be even more confusing. At least Blender's current buttons look different, so they can be expected to work differently too.

Having said that though, I think closer Mac OS integration would be great, especially with things like the menu bar.

Anyway, don't let these things get in your way though. Like knoxer said, it may even take quite a redesign of the Blender layout and controls to make it more aqua-compatible. Maybe this would be for the better? Don't know until you try! :)

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 5:29 am
by Money_YaY!
Hi last up date for Aqua OSX.
I will pick at it some more and try to get a developer on it now.
But this is really all I can do. I will finish it up with all of the words sometime this week.

The details are in the file. Tell me if you can and can not read the fonts.
in the read me file{not named read me}

Most of all it can only be used at simi full screen.
http://www.aprilcolo.com/bunny/smal.png
shows that it can shrink. but I took out the scale size buttons.
they mush to much.

I know of the resizeing bug . I just have to figure where to put the code.
And how to get the file into project builder again.

fun
http://www.aprilcolo.com/bunny/powwow.sit

^v^

note it does only run in OSX and you would need developer tools. I am
working on an standing app. but I'm tired right now. and it still is not an
app at all just an interface

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 7:40 am
by thorax
Maybe I was too quick to judge you, looks like you have an interest
in something intensely, more power to you..

Usually how I can help is by analysis of the interface design, what
making it Aqua like gets you, what features you value, what makes it easy, and bringing that to blender.. I think as some have said before,
the interface should remain consistent across platforms..
There is popular toolkit in the Linux and Windows community called Qt,
that is touted as a way to keep platform independence.. But hey
blender is already platform independent.. Its based ona derivative of
OpenGL's 2D standard for interfaces (I forget the name, but
in blender its equivalent is Ghost).. So you might get involved in
form Ghost.. Not to make blender with Aqua interface but make
a blender interface that is like Aqua.

What I suggest, ask yourself, what you like about it and bring
it up here.. I haven't access to a Mac, but maybe someone can get VNC running on a mac for a day and I can see.. But I'm pretty confident
with coming up with productive ideas about designs, especially
when I can play with the design and experience all that it is..
The idea is that blender's interface may become like you want,
considering what can be used.. I think everything can be used,
just need to see what you see, be ready to see what others
might have to say..

Another thing is to show examples in say a movie (get camstudio,
is that made for the Mac? Or Camtasia (it comes with a trial),
then get Realvideo Helix (no need to make a committment to Realvideo,
just that its platform independent and quick and easy and the videos are
not something you will need there to re-edit for any reason (??))..
Record your desktop,discuss with audio yoru ideas, then
show it.. If you want I could put it on my site, I have plenty of bandwidth for such a thing..