[FEEDBACK] Blender 2.5

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Jimmyon
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:59 pm

[FEEDBACK] Blender 2.5

Post by Jimmyon » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:07 pm

Hello Blenderusers,

i am Manuel from Hamburg(Germany) and i would like to give you a
very comprehensive feedback on blender 2.5 so far.

First i'd like to give a feedback on Blenders new UserInterface:
The interface has a nice color and looks good on the first sight.
Its very userfriendly(for NEW users) and very clean.
But for long time blender users its very, very hard to use. The
workflow you had in 1.x.x - 2.49b is gone, cause the interface
changed COMPLETELY. You can find barely anything and you have to
scroll all the time. The scrolling and the bulky Buttons are
the hardest critique points on 2.5 definetly. In 2.49 you had all
you need in one view, had a very big workspace above and still
enough space to add a UV-ImageEditor and an Outliner. But now, all
the space is blocked by the new 'eyecandy' buttons.
The feeling of depth in the 3d window has definetly become another
adventure, it looks very irrealistic (much to hard depth).
Another thing to worry of is the new Camera movement by using the
Numpad. You have a fly to feeling when you switch, which can
definetly help to navigate over the model and helps to keep the
dimensions. But theres a dark side about the 'flyswitchcam' which
is the flying over highpoly, massive particle or physics scenes. It
laggs some computers completely to switch the view in scenes like
this.
Then the new Buttons for e.g. Shading(F5), they were easy to
understand earlier, but now you even have to scroll those buttons and
the new design seems like windows 7. Glossy and useless big. Overall
i would say that the GUI is a step back from serious development.
I really hope there WILL be an official build with the old interface
aswell in 2.6 because i know hundreds of people having the same
problems like me.

Now the CustomKeyboardShortcuts:
They are very usefull i think, and very easy to handle. Only bad
thing is if you forgot something and you ask for the shortkey, it
wont work,
cause you have a custom one. Overall a very good idea and a good job
by blender devs.
The Tool-system:
This thing seems to be usefull on the first sight, but it is just to
big and robs space to work in again.
The 2.49 tools flying in semi transparent over your scene were
better. They can be minimized and are very
easy to arrange just like you need them. They just should be easier
to access.

The new Brushes:
Perfect, nothing more to say.

THe SmokeSim:
Yeah, this was a thriumph! Just like it was real.

VolumeRendering:
Awesome, this is what we all have been waiting for so long.
Works very well and perfect for clouds and fog and so much more.

Particles:
The Particle system is a real step, this is very good for artist
movies and for so much more.
Compliments here.

CONCLUSION:
Would i use 2.49 or 2.5?

2.49, because its more friendly to the workflow.
What is the main problem with 2.5?
The interface and the 'learning new'-factor. It costs so much time
and you start by zero.
What is the main success on 2.5?
The Smoke, definetly.
Would you say that 2.6 need to be different from 2.5?
Yes, without a version with the 2.49 interface i wont use it.
Blender has had the same interface since its public release and
changed barely. All the time it
was clear and easy and it has had a very nice overview all the time.



So: This was my feedback on 2.5 and i really hope you think about
that. And i AM in fear that blender becomes like C4D which is just
scrolling, selecting and typing in values.

Best wishes from Germany,
Manuel
My blog and portfolio: www.manuell3d.wordpress.com

Bardes
Posts: 0
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:40 pm

Post by Bardes » Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:23 am

Well, I use blender since 2.45, and I think 2.5 was the biggest and best improvement blender ever had. I disagree with almost all your complains.

- The new interface:
When I first saw it I couldn't find nothing, but in 1 or 2 months I got used to that and noticed that it was much more organized. Now you have a list with all materials linked to an object (not just numbers). The textures now have their own panel (much better) and the find toll in the space bar is awesome.

- Scroll all the time:
If you have a small screen you will have to scroll all the time, there is no magic. The vertical tool panel is much better for 16:9 monitors.

- The new 'eye-candy' buttons:
I like them and they are user friendly

- The 3d view:
All windows are totally editable the 3D view is not an exception. You can change the colors (dis)able the grid, axis, the "fly mode" and so on

- Editable shortcuts
This is one of the MOST useful features of 2.5. I've added a lot of shortcuts that helped me a lot in the workflow, and I've also changed some so that I could use it in my laptop too without the numpad. "Ok, but if you forget the shortcuts?" Easy! Actually easier than look up in the internet, I just go into the user preferences and look up for the name of the function and it gives me all the information about it (including the shortcut ) 8)

- The old interface:
Since I've saw the 2.5 interface I realized that 2.49 was pretty messy. There are panels inside panes (eg: texture panel is inside the material panel) the modifiers are inside the mesh panel in the middle of a lot of other things and edit vertex groups is really confusing.
these are some things that are more confusing in 2.49 that now are much easier.

So, as you can see I am a big fan of 2.5 and I think it is awesome. It still have some bugs but I think it can already be used for serious work and it is by far better than 2.49.

P.S.: 2.49 is awesome too, and I thank to everybody who worked directly or indirectly in it. (also because 2.5 wouldn't be possible without 2.49)

Best Wishes from Brazil
-Paulo Bardes-

ophis
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:37 pm

Re: [FEEDBACK] Blender 2.5

Post by ophis » Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:02 am

="Jimmyon"]Hello Blenderusers,

i am Manuel from Hamburg(Germany) and i would like to give you a
very comprehensive feedback on blender 2.5 so far.

First i'd like to give a feedback on Blenders new UserInterface:
The interface has a nice color and looks good on the first sight.
Its very userfriendly(for NEW users) and very clean.
But for long time blender users its very, very hard to use. The
workflow you had in 1.x.x - 2.49b is gone, cause the interface
changed COMPLETELY...........................



I must admit i agree with Jimmyon on this, the workflow which is one of blenders main attractions for me is gone, i oringinally started using 3ds max when i was a nooby to 3d modeling but made the change to blender and was so impressed how much faster it was to work with. In blender 2.49b i use the shortcut keys for everything so the messy menu's wernt such an issue. because blender is such a massive program in terms of functionality (so much more than just a 3d modeling program) there is a massive lerning curve to use it, now i feel i will be starting from scratch or face missing out on all the new features, perhaps i will just model things in 2.49b an then do the rest in 2.6. i do alot of models using photo refrence and tend to draw round my images using the "e" key to extrude vertices i notice now tho that this automatically locks the movement of the vertice on a diaganal path. im not gonna write it off yet tho as theres some very nice features to make lerning 2.6 very worthwhile.
Im sure i read somewhere 2.6 will support gpu rendering but cant find any info on this now, this would be very usefull to me as i have sli 9800gt's, never did manage to get nvidia gelato working with blender for this so i really hope this is something included in the final release.

ah so i gotta press shift and e to extrude individual elements it seems which aint too bad, having trouble spliting my screen into seperate views now tho, guess if i cant figure it all out im just gonna have to wait for a new "noob to pro" manual so i dont frustrate the hell outa myself, at least this time round it will be mainly lerning the interface an not to much on modeling concepts which should be alot less painfull. i think i will try some nebulas as this was a great way to familiarise with all the texture and particle settings in previous blenders. i think 2.5 will grow on me given enough time to play around with it.

salted
Posts: 0
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:27 am
Location: New Mexico

Post by salted » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:12 pm

I'm a casual user of blender. I don't use it every day, but I make small concept animations every few months. I thought I would try the new beta and I have to agree with Jimmy. The interface is insanely difficult to get used to. None of the F-Keys seem to work like I would expect and it took me 30 minutes to figure out how to add a new mesh.

I don't like the spacebar seach. What is that all about, it seems useless. The interface just seems too user friendly and the workflow I was used to is gone. This is a huge step backwards.

What made blender so easy to use was the workflow. It had a slightly higher learning curve but then it just worked. The interface just looks too busy. It doesn't need to look like its complicated, which is what I think the developers went for, looks. I need it to be useful, not useless. I really had the scrolling too.

The other problem I have is that there are not many 2.5 tutorials and with the new version, all the old tutorials on the web are now obsolete. Years of work gone. Why would anyone make a change this serious? I'm really disapointed in blender this time.

Create a Website
Posts: 0
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:51 am

Post by Create a Website » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:58 am

I am also getting confused in blender 2.5 and I couldn't agree more. however, I am willing to discover easier ways to make it work.

Bardes
Posts: 0
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:40 pm

Post by Bardes » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:58 pm

You guys are afraid of changes. If you work in 2.5 for 2 weeks you will get used to the UI. The first 3 days you may think the changes are stupid, but you will see that they made a good job actually.

abut the space bar menu, it's not gone, now you just use the shift+a shortcut instead of space. The space can ALSO add objects/meshes to the scene but it does a lot more, when you don't know a shortcut or don't want to search for a button in the panels you just press space and type a few letters and you got what you want.

Just a few shortcuts were changed so if you say that the work flow was good because of the shortcuts for almost everything and you didn't care about the messy panels and menus, you shouldn't care about the "pretty" and IMO well organized menus in 2.5.

The work flow still the same, the tools are faster the new sculpt system is just awesome. The linking system seems to be more stable and the new rendering system looks nice too.

Everybody in Amsterdam and people helping development of blender is doing their best. Criticism is also a good help so don't stop claiming but just say "2.5 suck let's go back to 2.49 and never change!" is not very precise of what is wrong with 2.5.

Best wishes from Brazil
-Paulo Bardes-

janmatys
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:11 pm

Post by janmatys » Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:47 pm

Heya to all,

yep, absolutely agree with Bardes. I used Blender before some years and get back few weeks ago ... DL V2.5 automatically and I have to say that its ASTONISHING! The side panels in the 3D view are SUPERB! In fact, I really do NOT have all the shortcuts on mind anymore but I almost do NOT need it because almost every funcion is available in the menus - I know, SC is much faster but when U dunno them now in V2.5 it almost does NOT matter and I LOVE IT.

Also right about that spacebar - another way how to find a function without knowing a short or even the position in the menus ... and in fact, Blender 2.5 have MUCH BETTER organization of menus and buttons than any other previous version - WELL MADE!

The only thing (for now) thats missing for me - and I know NOT ONLY FOR ME - is the original RETOPO TOOL ... Im really hoping it will find its way back, because new snap-to-"whatever" tool is much less precise and takes much more time to be done right way than OUTSTANDING RETOPO from 2.49!!! PLZ give it back to us... (for SURE, I know many people which have installed 2.5 with 2.49 ONLY because of retopo!)


Sincerely, JayM

fjdouse
Posts: 0
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:28 pm

Post by fjdouse » Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:04 pm

What I don't like about 2.5 is that everything has changed so much and it means everything learned on 2.4x is essentially wasted because everything must be learned again.

But the real killer for me is lack of a Preview window, I used it extensively for aligning textures, tweaking colours, etc. etc. until they add that I cannot even entertain the idea of using it. And changing the space-bar menu to a useless menu is insane. It's not a case of not wanting to embrace change, I just don't like the new interface, no preview and screwed up keyboard shortcuts.

I'm still using 2.49b and have no need to move to this horrid beta - yet.

GuardianPhoenix
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:40 am
Location: United Kingdom

Blender isn't Blender anymore.

Post by GuardianPhoenix » Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:15 am

Okay, I'm going to be fully honest here but those who say people are afraid of changes, maybe we/they are. We don't LIKE changes. And with some good reason.

@ Interface.
No it is NOT easier. No it is NOT less cluttered, infact. I find it MORE damn cluttered to use than 2.49. I can't find anything because EVERYTHING is all scrolling. Most people don't have time to scroll over 200 menus to find something. The horizontal option is also useless. The large panels provide nothing but a waste of space and the re-sizing of certain windows is certainly stupid as some options/bars become cut off or cluttered. Reasonably I have a widescreen, 1307 by 738 (aproximately!), but even THAT is not enough when I require SPACE to work! I'm content and have the time to scroll through the 200 menus, but when I don't have enough room you're taking the piss. We don't need huge icons as we're NOT blind.

IMPROVEMENTS:
Smaller interface or an option to change icon size!
More compact and ACTUAL USER FRIENDLY menus!

QUOTES:

"Just a few shortcuts were changed so if you say that the work flow was good because of the shortcuts for almost everything and you didn't care about the messy panels and menus, you shouldn't care about the "pretty" and IMO well organized menus in 2.5. "
--
I used the panels thank you very much, and I also used a few of the short cuts, Hidden and unused icons (Such as; TEXTURES!), were hidden when you didn't need them. It adds to the icon clutter. The 2.5 menus may be thought over but they are FAR from well organised.

--

"- The new interface:
When I first saw it I couldn't find nothing, but in 1 or 2 months I got used to that and noticed that it was much more organized. Now you have a list with all materials linked to an object (not just numbers). The textures now have their own panel (much better) and the find toll in the space bar is awesome. "

As I said above, the UI is cluttered, oversized, and messy. Some things, granted are an improvement (such as lists).

"- Scroll all the time:
If you have a small screen you will have to scroll all the time, there is no magic. The vertical tool panel is much better for 16:9 monitors. "

Sorry, but the majority of people don't need humongous menus which take over our screen and workspace, reducing workflow. If there WAS an option to reduce the size of menus EFECTIVLY, maybe. However there isn't one and scrolling out does NOT help this issue like it did in 2.49.


"- The new 'eye-candy' buttons:
I like them and they are user friendly "

Maybe, but again, cluttery and a waste of space.


"- Editable shortcuts
This is one of the MOST useful features of 2.5. I've added a lot of shortcuts that helped me a lot in the workflow, and I've also changed some so that I could use it in my laptop too without the numpad. "Ok, but if you forget the shortcuts?" Easy! Actually easier than look up in the internet, I just go into the user preferences and look up for the name of the function and it gives me all the information about it (including the shortcut )"

Some people like their defaults. Some people don't like to waste their time SETTING UP shortcuts just to have them removed when they update.
As for people who don't know how to use the F-Keys... start learning, seriously. It becomes second-nature.


"- The old interface:
Since I've saw the 2.5 interface I realized that 2.49 was pretty messy. There are panels inside panes (eg: texture panel is inside the material panel) the modifiers are inside the mesh panel in the middle of a lot of other things and edit vertex groups is really confusing.
these are some things that are more confusing in 2.49 that now are much easier. "

That there crossed the line. 2.49 was helpful, ordely and anything BUT messy. The texture panel inside the material panel kept it hidden UNTIL NEEDED. Which allowed more useful panels to be in the place! If you used your brain first you'd realise they were there for a damn reason. They're only less confusing and easier now because it's more simple and CLUTTERED.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Also before you go cutting my head off;
I LIKE 2.5, I'm USED to 2.5, however the previously stated points drag it down. There was NO need for a full UI change, however it only takes a short while to find out where things are. ALSO you do NOT need to re-learn EVERYTHING, the way blender works has NOT changed. Your skills have not been erased or lost.

Until the UI gets touched up on or changed back to it's familiar and loved 2.49, my hobby of 3D animating will seriously be dragged down. Blender seems more like 3DSM/Maya than Blender. I chose Blender, NOT 3DSM/Maya.

Think about what we're telling you, @ Blender Developers. We say it for a reason, and I created an account on this forum JUST to post a reply. And as a final note; congratulations on the development of 2.5, though, it really is a let-down to a majority.

Regards,
~Guardian Phoenix from the UK.

ferone
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Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:44 pm
Location: Leipzig

Re: Blender isn't Blender anymore.

Post by ferone » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:38 pm

Hi there,

it seems like new users or "not regulary" Blender user prefer the new Interface,
wheres the "old troupers" feel it's time for a little rebellion...
However,
I think the problem is not that there's just a new Interface, the people don't want spend time learning. Every 2.49 Blender user was "testet" when he or she start to work - so the people are naturaly open for changes, new ideas and blessed with patience ;)

The issues Jimmyon show's us are, in my opinion, absolutely correct. I start with 3dsMax myself, but then switch to Blender because I can work so much faster and easier. The first time is a pain, but than it's like dancing !
I loved Blender- realy, maybe it's even better than flying and stuff,
and I want to love the new Blender too – so badly ... But can't see how to fly without wings.
Why I have to scroll all the time and torture my mouse so much more?
Why F5,F6,... was buried ...

To put it in a nutshell:
The new Interface looks beautiful, BUT I DON'T CARE how it looks,
I CARE HOW GOOD I CAN WORK with it.

Maybe guys from 3dsMax or people with a dislike for shortkeys will be happy,
but we, the other's got hit full force.

Must Blender go this way – is it neccessary to try making Blender a thing for everyone with the price of losing it's inner beauty?

I have the highest consideration for the blender developers,
there are so many amazing things -
Although I beg you! : "Don't kill the blender we know!".
Maybe at least give us back a little bit of F5.
Dream would be to let the people choose between "classic" and "2.5" layout :)


Sincerely, ferone


PS:
I ask to be excused for my bad english ;)

RiViT
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Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:05 pm
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Post by RiViT » Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:43 pm

The varied reactions to the changes in 2.5 are very interesting to read. For the most part, the negative comments seem to prove out something I've come to realize in other areas of life: what a person is used to is far preferable to change. Or, in other words, better the devil you know.

I've 'looked in' on Blender five or six times since it went open source about ten years ago and, with 2.5, it's the first time I've gotten past, "What the h*ll? Where's the [fill in blank]? I have to memorize WHAT! Oh, forget it!" stage. So, overall, I'm happier with the new interface.

I think the biggest benefit for Blender as a product will be the influx of new users. I think these changes could easily bring Blender much closer to being a mainstream 3D application.

Yes, it'll be a pain for the more experienced people and I'm sorry for that. I just hope those who are having trouble adapting can get past this hurdle and continue the wonderful work they've already been doing.

Take heart! It's unlikely that Blender will undergo such a comprehensive GUI overhaul again until computers can be operated 100% via spoken commands.
-Ron T.

noblunder
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:58 pm

Post by noblunder » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:18 pm

Whoever is using the "people afraid of change" argument: you are ignoring the fact that those questioning the merits of 2.5 are providing detailed and logically compelling comparison facts. They attempt to thoroughly spell out and quantify the (perceived) loss of features and conveniences in this major UI revision. To me their arguments sound compelling and not stemming from fear, stagnation or lazy clinging to a comfort zone.

Here are MY immediate observations, perhaps COMPLETELY unrelated:

On Ubuntu with JACK-audio running (and pulseaudio suspended), Blender 2.59 freezes on "quit", and on other commands (such as "reload factory defaults"). Unless you switch sound off ("None") in preferences. Any hope of getting direct jack-audio support in blender?

Python scripts no longer work as before (I guess this is being discussed elsewhere already?). The "blender" module no longer works, and strange syntax errors occur (such as with "print" statements)

thanks.

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