Blender early 2.3 snapshot

General discussion about the development of the open source Blender

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cessen
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:43 pm

Post by cessen » Mon Oct 20, 2003 5:20 pm

I love it! The new GUI is awesome! :-D
The new GUI is much cleaner and more aesthetically pleasing. More of the button types are now clearly distinguishable (though not all), and the interface now only shows buttons that are relevant to the context. Not to mention that the interface is now even more customizable than before! :-D

However, I do have two main quibbles with the new interface, and they are as follows:

1) The sub-windows can be aligned vertically within a window, but the header of the window cannot be made vertical--it is always aligned horizontally along the top or bottom of the window. This makes the vertical alignment of the sub-windows rather useless.
It would be nice to be able to orient the header to be vertical on either side of the window, to go along with the vertical alignment of the sub-windows.

2) Some of the button types still look alike. For instance, toggle buttons still look exactly like function buttons. As do "radio" buttons.

There are many little things about the GUI that I would like to have changed, but they are just that: little. And if they need to, they can be dealt with later. Over all, you guys did a knock-out job on the GUI, and it's a huge improvement! Great job! :-D

Ringo7
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 3:42 am
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida USA

Post by Ringo7 » Mon Oct 20, 2003 9:22 pm

Thanks big-time Ton! This preview made the hair on my back stand up... Beautiful work! :D

leinad13
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 5:35 pm

Post by leinad13 » Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:08 pm

Hey in that latest realease (20th october) i notice the Game Engine. :D

Is it working fully?
-------------
Over to you boffins

L!13

Timothy
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 3:20 pm
Contact:

Post by Timothy » Tue Oct 21, 2003 12:59 am

single level undo?

You've got 32 level undo by default,.. which btw doesn't always function as expected.
try: u (undo), shift+u(redo), alt+u(undo menu).

Timothy

cekuhnen
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 11:04 pm

Post by cekuhnen » Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:38 am

ton

i have no words, the new interface kicks ass.
i realy love it. it looks very asthetic.

cannot wait to get a final one.


is there any build of 10.3 with 2.28 or later?
python seems not to work with the current compiles under 10.3!

M@dcow
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 12:50 pm

Post by M@dcow » Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:49 am

Ok, Now that I've had a couple of days to play with it, I can give you my opinions and actually feel like I know what I'm talking about:

***************Buttons******************

The first thing that strikes me when I looked at these buttons is the fact that the current bevel type makes the buttons appear crooked and out of sync with each other. I prepared a Mockup image between the button types in Bf.Blender and Tuhopuu:

Image

I made the GUI darker so you can see the effect better – Oh, and I prefer to work with darker GUI’s anyway.

As you can probably see, the buttons in the Bf version look out of sync, whereas the tuhopuu “simple gradients” don’t. I also prefer the slider buttons in tuhopuu, they look beefier and make it feel like you’re actually grabbing something. Anyway, I’ve made it clear as to which one I prefer, so I wonder what others think?

************Space Usage*****************
The new floating panels are very cool. There’s no escaping that, but I think there are issues:

I can see your dilemma here, you want the floating panels to be all the same size and maintain a sense of “consistency” but that leaves you with the major issue of which buttons to place where and at what size should you make them all so that they fit. Overall I think you did a fantastic job but there are areas that still need a lot of work so I’ll focus on the buttons that I thought were the most in need of a revamp, namely the Material buttons…

Image

Now here the material Preview gets an entire tab (For want of a better word) to itself, while the Texture, Map input and Map to buttons have to share single tab between them, when it is barely big enough for one.

Maybe a solution to this is to have the individual tabs big enough to fit the buttons that they are meant to hold, then when minimized, have them revert to the same size for consistency reasons. I don’t know how hard this is to implement, as I’m no coder, merely a well-meaning observer.

************Practicality*****************

This brings us straight back to the material Buttons, and most importantly the texture mapping section. In the old versions of Blender everything was laid out exactly where you could see it, and like a general commanding an army, you could see and change any parameter you wanted, all without switching windows.

In this version having to constantly flit between the three mapping buttons can become annoying and somewhat tiresome, causing what I’m terming the “Bwarg syndrome". In this example I’m showing a fairly complex six texture material to highlight the problem:

Image

I’m sure anyone else who has been playing with this will know exactly what I mean, when tabbing through the mapping buttons I’m constantly having to back up a step, to make sure that I have set things up properly -- This slows things down considerably and is much more of a mental strain on me, having to remember how I set things up in the “map input” buttons to properly affect the “Map To” buttons.

*******Sliders**************

I also noticed that some of the sliders have been reduced in size, meaning it is very hard to see its exact position while sliding down to very small numbers…

Image

See a numerical difference? Me neither.

*******One Last thing**********

I know you said don’t mention bugs, but this particular one has been bugging me (No pun intended) for a long time now, so I need to get this off my chest:

It’s the Render window “Esc” bug. Every time I hit “esc” to abort a render, newer versions of Blender take ages to actually respond – Sometimes up to 20 seconds depending on model complexity – I know this must be a bug of some kind because with 2.23 the abort process was almost instantaneous.

Just out of curiosity how many other people suffer from this problem? Is it everyone? Or caused by something on my system?

Right, this was way too long winded, but what the hell – Overall I’m damn impressed with what your doing here, I just needed to voice some of my concerns.

matt_e
Posts: 410
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Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Post by matt_e » Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:57 am

Just a few notes - things are still under construction and not finished! :)

I'm currently working on fixing that issue with the button outline. It wasn't designed for the buttons to be rammed up against each other like that (like you said, sardine class). They also apppear far too bright when the background is darker.

In any case, the button layouts still need to be perfected - ton just copied them straight over from the old Blender, but they needs to be changed a bit and re-thought to fit the layout, size, shape of the panels better (and also cleaning up the mess (eg. render buttons) in the process! It's still being worked on and hopefully should address a lot of the problems that have been pointed out because of it.

The complaint with the texture panels is a good one. You really need to see what texture is currently being modified. Hopefully this can be improved when the layout is fixed.

Cheers

cessen
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:43 pm

Post by cessen » Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:00 pm

M@dcow wrote:In this version having to constantly flit between the three mapping buttons can become annoying and somewhat tiresome, causing what I’m terming the “Bwarg syndrome".
(A quick note to avoid confusion: I call the floating windows "sub-windows", and the multiple "switch-between" windows within the sub-windows "tabbed windows", and the tabs that you use to switch between the tabbed windows "tabs".)

I agree that the name of the currently active texture should always be visible (perhaps along with a number to indicate the texture-slot).
However, I think that the tabbed setup in the texture sub-window works very well. I think that the choice of which buttons to put in each tabbed window works well (with the exception of not always having the name of the currently active texture visible).


The one critique I have in that area is that the multiple tabs are only visible when you have a texture-slot with a texture selected. I was very confused by this at first because I was trying to figure out where the mapping buttons were. :?

I think a better solution would be for them to still be visible, but simply not selectable, and perhaps grayed out to show that they're not selectable. That way the user knows that those button-sets exist, but that they simply don't apply to the current context.

And, perhaps, if they click on them when they're not selectable, a tool-tip could pop up that says something to the effect of, "You need to add a texture to the current texture-slot before you can access this tab."

Carnivore
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 6:27 pm

Post by Carnivore » Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:04 pm

uh, m@dcow, you do know that you can separate tabbed panels, right?
www.hot.ee/tere343/buttons2.jpg
sorry if I missed somthing.

and, yes, esc response while rendering is a common proble, at least for me.

M@dcow
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 12:50 pm

Post by M@dcow » Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:25 pm

Carnivore wrote:uh, m@dcow, you do know that you can separate tabbed panels, right?
www.hot.ee/tere343/buttons2.jpg
sorry if I missed somthing.

and, yes, esc response while rendering is a common proble, at least for me.
Yes, of course I know this -- But where are you going to put them on a monitor with a 1024x768 desktop resolution and still see all the other buttons?

Carnivore
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 6:27 pm

Post by Carnivore » Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:06 pm

Hey, you can always be like me and run 1280x960 on a 15" monitor :D

Well, I tried collapsing panels, but yes, that will be a _lot_ of extra cliks... I suppose that it'll just take some getting used to to find the most efficient panel combinations.

That brings me to my suggestion - how about preset, loadable button screens that you have previously composed of different panels and then saved? Would that be possible/useful? It'd be like the render presets in tuhopuu. Just give it a thought.

ilac
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 8:24 am

Post by ilac » Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:53 pm

Carnivore wrote: That brings me to my suggestion - how about preset, loadable button screens that you have previously composed of different panels and then saved? Would that be possible/useful? It'd be like the render presets in tuhopuu. Just give it a thought.
Been there for as long as I can remember! :wink: Use ctrl left arrow/right arrow to jump from one screen to another. add and name screens from the "scr:screen.001" button on the info toolbar (top header) Like that you can have as many panel layouts as you please!

jd-multi
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 11:29 pm

Post by jd-multi » Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:55 pm

Awesome, some game engine features are working :P, great, it's coming back slowly. I've got only one question about it. Where is the save runtime with autorun and set resolution option? I can't set the options for a runtime, did they forgot it? :?

Ender
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 6:25 am

Post by Ender » Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:55 am

Really? I'm not getting any game engine in the OS X 10/21 build. :(

OTO
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 8:51 pm
Contact:

Post by OTO » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:48 pm

Hi

for those having a SEG fault with the MAndrake 9.1 upgrade to
the new 9.2.
Now Blender 2.29 works fine, for me!!
Bye

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