Blender/Yafray supported features summary

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eeshlo
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Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 10:02 pm

Blender/Yafray supported features summary

Post by eeshlo » Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:41 pm

Since the first yafray export code is now in cvs, I thought it would be a good idea to summarize the current supported features to clear up some of the confusion. First, since currently it uses temporary xml export, when running Blender for the first time you need to set a valid existing export directory in the 'File Paths' section in the user-defaults window (pull down the top header bar).
To render with Yafray, select the 'YafRay' button in the render section (F10), add/tweak some GI settings if needed in the 'YafRay GI' panel, then just render with F12 or the render button, this also works for animation.
With regards to animation, motion blur is not supported yet.
All Blender objects can be rendered (including the new displacement feature), not just meshes, with the exception of particles.

Lighting:
---------
- Currently only Lamp/Spot/Sun supported.
Lighting levels will almost certainly not match those of YafRay, you will have to tweak a lot.


Materials:
----------
Yafray uses a special 'blendershader' to implement most of Blender's current material/shading system.

Supported:
- Col/Spe/Mir colors
The Mir color is also used to define the reflection color
- Ref/Spec/Hard/Emit/Alpha parameters
- RayMir/IOR parameters
- RayMirror/RayTransp/ZTransp modes
- VColLight/VColPaint/Shadeless modes

Not supported yet (some of which never will be supported):
- the different specular/diffuse shaders, yafray currently always uses Lambert/Phong (which is in fact not the same as in Blender)
- TexFace/Wire/ZInvert modes
You can use uv textures, but they have to be assigned as regular image textures (uv-button in 'Map Input' window).
- Halo/Traceable/Shadow/Radio/OnlyShadow/NoMist/Env modes
- Translucency/Ambient/SpecTra/Add parameters

Textures:
---------

Suported:
- All mapping modes with the exception of 'sticky'.
- Flat/Cube/Tube/Sphere mappings
- texture projection axes (X/Y/Z buttons)
- offset and size (OfsX/Y/Z & SizeX/Y/Z)
- All Texture modes with the exception of 'Translu'
- Mix/Mul/Add/Sub modes
- Stencil/Neg/NoRGB modes
- Texture color
- DVar/Col/Nor/Var parameters
For bumpmapping you will have to tweak the Nor parameter, in yafray it can depend a lot on the texture.

The Texture types supported are Image/Wood/Marble/Clouds/Stucci
The image type in yafray can only be either jpeg or tga.
Colorbands are also supported, as well as the contrast/brightness and color 'fiter' parameters.

For the "SkyDome" GI type (which is not really GI, it only calculates shadows) you need to have a World assigned in Blender, The Horizon color determines the color of the background used.
If you find the rendered picture too dark, set 'power' in the GI panel to a higher value.

I think that's about it...
Don't forget that this wasn't really meant to be released yet, so you will find bugs and probably other 'unexpected' behaviour...
Hope this helps some.

Alfredo

leinad13
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 5:35 pm

Post by leinad13 » Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:59 am

I have been testing a CVS build that i built yesterday with the Yafray export code, in and i would like to complement you on a god job. I looked at the code a little and it is niely commented, i think that it may be posssible to implement other renderers using your code as a base. Such as POV and RenderMan Formats.

Well done eeshlo and Jandro you have acheived well and not only for Blender and Yafray integeration but maybe for other renderers as well.

The only i dislike about the current setup with the GI options using the Background Horizon Colours, maybe there could be a colour picker in the new Yafray Options dialog. (It took my ages to work out why my renders we coming out black :S)
-------------
Over to you boffins

L!13

jo
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 4:49 pm

Post by jo » Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:49 am

it works and looks great, but yafray ignores my reflection-, alpha- and refractionsettings!!! :(

Carnivore
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Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 6:27 pm

Post by Carnivore » Tue Jan 06, 2004 12:38 pm

When 2.32 is released, will the Windows binary install package include an automatic YafRAY install? It would be nice to always have the correct version correctly installed with Blender. In a separate directory of course(like C:\Blender Foundation\Blender\yafray\ )
Currently, yafray.exe is slapping me around.

MrMunkily
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 5:24 am

Post by MrMunkily » Tue Jan 06, 2004 1:45 pm

Bloody wonderful!

The only things that I wonder about are yafray parameters that have no blender equivalents, such as photon settings... DOF... that sort of thing. Do you have interface plans, maybe additions to the blender material block (in a seperate "tab" or floating panel) or lamp block?

I can't help but get excited over this, it's really excellent. Works great, fast as hell... can't be happier.

Panther
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Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 7:55 pm

Post by Panther » Tue Jan 06, 2004 2:40 pm

Hi Alfredo,

Firstly, I would like to thank you for all your hard-work in integrating YafRay into Blender - This is truely awesome !!! :D

I'm running the latest CVS build ( 5-1-2004 ) on a Windows XP ( Professional ) computer, but have noticed the following issues / limitations...


( i ) The integration doesn't work if you installed YafRay into a directory which contains a SPACE ( like 'Program Files', for example ) :(

( ii ) The 'Text Box' you've added to the 'User Menu' ( for the YAFRAY_DIR location ) should be renamed to something more logical... like 'YafRay Dir' :wink:

( iii ) User's have to type their full YAFRAY_DIR path into your 'Text Box' ( including drive letter's ), but this limitation doesn't seem to exist in the other 'User Menu' text boxes ( drive letter's aren't needed, for example ) :?

( iv ) Your 'Text Box' is also missing the 'Browse' button to the right of it, unlike the other 'User Menu' text boxes :(

( v ) 'Toon Shading' isn't supported :(


Please don't think this is a critism of your work, as my intention is just to highlight some issues that you may not be aware of :)

I can't wait for the official 2.32 build - Which I'm assuming will have the full YafRay integration !!! :D

Anyway...

Keep-up the good work... it's greatly appreciated !!! :D


P.S. Sorry for all the emoticons !!! :oops:

VirtualDarKness
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 7:51 pm

Post by VirtualDarKness » Tue Jan 06, 2004 3:09 pm

Thanks a lot for your post, eeshlo!

I've summarized and translated it into italian:
http://www.blender.it/modules.php?op=mo ... 1&forum=19

These are very useful info, thanks again!

bye,
Giovanni.

eeshlo
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 10:02 pm

Post by eeshlo » Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:40 pm

leinad13 wrote:The only i dislike about the current setup with the GI options using the Background Horizon Colours, maybe there could be a colour picker in the new Yafray Options dialog. (It took my ages to work out why my renders we coming out black :S)
Well, if you disable all gradient type buttons in Blender (Real/Blend/Paper), then you get a constant color background as in Yafray which can only be changed with the horizon colors, so it is in fact the same as in Blender. I willl add the various gradient options to Yafray as well though. And maybe the other way around as well for some of the yafray background options...
jo wrote: it works and looks great, but yafray ignores my reflection-, alpha- and refractionsettings!!!
It doesn't ignore it, but the needed settings might be a bit unintuitive, this is slightly modified now in the latest code. It uses some of the 'Mirror Transp' panel parameters. It can still be quite confusing, since some of the parameters are not used the same in Yafray. A separate panel for the yafray specific parameters might be better, but this is not something we can just add like that, this has to be discussed with the other developpers first.
Carnivore wrote: When 2.32 is released, will the Windows binary install package include an automatic YafRAY install? It would be nice to always have the correct version correctly installed with Blender. In a separate directory of course(like C:\Blender Foundation\Blender\yafray\ )
Currently, yafray.exe is slapping me around.
I can't imagine 2.32 will be released with yafray export yet, it is definitely in no way ready yet at all. XML export is only a temporary debug option for us to be able to check the output, the goal is to render with yafray via a plugin instead, which I suppose will be distributed with Blender.
MrMunkily wrote: The only things that I wonder about are yafray parameters that have no blender equivalents, such as photon settings... DOF... that sort of thing. Do you have interface plans, maybe additions to the blender material block (in a seperate "tab" or floating panel) or lamp block?
Yes, of course. But these sort of things have to be discussed with Ton and the other developpers.
Panther wrote: ( i ) The integration doesn't work if you installed YafRay into a directory which contains a SPACE ( like 'Program Files', for example )
This should be solved now.
( ii ) The 'Text Box' you've added to the 'User Menu' ( for the YAFRAY_DIR location ) should be renamed to something more logical... like 'YafRay Dir'
I thought "YFexport" is selfexplanatory enough...for us anyway, people keep forgetting that this wasn't intended to be used yet, the endresult will be quite different.
( iii ) User's have to type their full YAFRAY_DIR path into your 'Text Box' ( including drive letter's ), but this limitation doesn't seem to exist in the other 'User Menu' text boxes ( drive letter's aren't needed, for example )
Yes, have to look in to that, I'm sure that is easy to solve though, but unfortunately I'm having problems compiling Blender on windows, which I haven't done in a long time... but others might come up with a solution for this too of course.
( iv ) Your 'Text Box' is also missing the 'Browse' button to the right of it, unlike the other 'User Menu' text boxes
Not anymore.
( v ) 'Toon Shading' isn't supported
All blender diffuse/specular shaders (plus some extra new ones, which could be added to Blender as well) will be implemented in Yafray, so just wait for a future version.
I can't wait for the official 2.32 build - Which I'm assuming will have the full YafRay integration !!!
No, not yet, lots of problems to be solved first, as I said, XML export is only temporary.

Alfredo

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi » Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:12 am

It sounds like the final Blender/Yafray thing will be quite nice indeed! It is nice to hear that you are trying to integrate it smoothly, so that you are going to copy things from Blender to YafRay and visa versa.


But let me get this straight.. In the final version we will need to install Blender, a plugin and Yafray to render in Blender with Yafray? Why not integrate it? The current crop of Blender plugins are rarely used by anyone and never work with newer Blender versions. Ofcourse I guess it wont be a Python script but even so.. it just means an extra thing people need to download and install, something alot of people might not like.

Anyway I'm just curious about what the plans are.

Regards

Mr_B
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 5:02 pm

Post by Mr_B » Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:17 am

eeshlo, even for temporary xml export the tags are pretty clean. I do think the sphere output is a little overwhelming, but some/most python scripts do the same.

theeth
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Location: Montreal
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Post by theeth » Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:18 am

About the plugin business, it will most likely end up being like the Python DLL that is located in the Blender folder. All you'd have to do is download yafray.dll, copy it there and you're done. No loading, nothing.

Of course, the official downloads could include it already packed in, but by using a plugable library like this, it would be easier to instal bugfixes for yafray individually (especially since their release schedule is not the same as Blender, although it will probably become linked somehow).

Martin
Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans.
- John Lennon

hpygocrazy
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu May 01, 2003 9:13 pm

Post by hpygocrazy » Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:28 am

Having a YafRay dll would be the best option. I would like to see Blender broken up into dlls and a main program. It would probably be easier to maintain and a little quicker.

Monkeyboi
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
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Post by Monkeyboi » Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:39 am

It sounds like a good idea with the .dlls! I understand the .dlls will not neceserally be released simultaniousely with Blender releases but even so I suggest that the newest yafray dll is always included in new Blender releases. If people want to update their Yafray dll they can always download an update if they want. I just don't think we should force people to download lots of small expansions if it is not necesary.

ideasman
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Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 2:37 pm

Post by ideasman » Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:38 am

To have a dll or not- Its a packaging issue.

I think its important to package blender in a way that gives users functionality without having to mess around too much (currently does not exist)

I think the best option would be to have-

Blender lite: 2.5~ meg - Just blender, like its distributed now,
Blender: /w yafray, python plugins etc. say 6meg (aim to give lots of functionality)
Blender full: - same as above with doc's. ~25meg
- Or have a documentation pack.

I think this would be good for new users, because it can be daunting to fiddle around with a program to get it to do somthing when your learning it.
I know the little download is cool but any new person serious about 3D wouldent mind a 6meg download.

BTW I played with yafray, Im interested in weather Yafray will import blenders normals.
I noticed in the XML that yafray dosent use blenders normals, it generates its own.
Soon blender will have manual normal editing, thanks to Ton.
2c - Cam

ideasman
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Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 2:37 pm

Post by ideasman » Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:43 am

Hi, Im not sure if this is a bug in Blender/Yafray-

Duplivert lights dont work- they are ignored.
Not sure if anyone was aware of this.

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