Engine users ignored!

General discussion about the development of the open source Blender

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johnn
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Engine users ignored!

Post by johnn »

Almost everyday now I'm looking anxiously in the Interactive 3D thread for updates on the engine, sadly nothing seems to happen, and I feel that this is to ignore a large part of the Blender community, whose sole interest in Blender is it's unique ability for the user to create a world and then press play!

The current engine/version has been around without updates for about two years! Come on! Give us real-time users something new!

The main drawback with the current engine is that it only accepts spherical collision objects. In my TRONTANK-game for instance I had to have a ballon double the size of the tank above it which detected collisions as to stop them from moving thru walls.

I'd use Tuhopuu (what kind of impractical name is that anyway? :-) if I knew it was forward-compatible with a future version of Blender with an engine, but this doesn't seem to be the case.

I now you guys are working hard on Blender, but I feel it is only focused toward the animation/still-rendering-community. I know they are the largest part - but how large is that part contra the real-time only users?

(If I could get the poll-function to work in this forum, maybe we could get an answer to this question - It said "You tried to enter to many poll options" when I only entered two - "yes" and "no", hm?)


/johnn aka dinAlt

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"If you do nothing - nothing will happen"

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Goofster
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Re: Engine users ignored!

Post by Goofster »

johnn wrote:Almost everyday now I'm looking anxiously in the Interactive 3D thread for updates on the engine, sadly nothing seems to happen, and I feel that this is to ignore a large part of the Blender community, whose sole interest in Blender is it's unique ability for the user to create a world and then press play!
Sadly, the blender.org forum is not the place where most developement is discussed. if you want to stay up-to-date, it's best to subscribe to the developers mailling list or one of the quazillion other mailling lists
The current engine/version has been around without updates for about two years! Come on! Give us real-time users something new!
As you may or may not know, the solid (collision detection) library wich was used in blender only became open-source last month. HARD work since then is being done in the experimental blender version "Tuhopuu"
The main drawback with the current engine is that it only accepts spherical collision objects. In my TRONTANK-game for instance I had to have a ballon double the size of the tank above it which detected collisions as to stop them from moving thru walls.
I'm not sure what the exact features of the solid library are and if this will ever be included
I'd use Tuhopuu (what kind of impractical name is that anyway? :-) if I knew it was forward-compatible with a future version of Blender with an engine, but this doesn't seem to be the case.
It's better to test the gameengine in Tuhopuu though, would you rather have a gameengine in the normal release wich was buggy and changed every release? maybe even making bf-blender incompatible with future releases?
I now you guys are working hard on Blender, but I feel it is only focused toward the animation/still-rendering-community. I know they are the largest part - but how large is that part contra the real-time only users?
hmm, I feel most of the work being done (with the exception of the renderer-enhancements) is on the modelling part of blender, wich benefits all users.

Roel

johnn
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Re: Engine users ignored!

Post by johnn »

Goofster wrote: Sadly, the blender.org forum is not the place where most developement is discussed. if you want to stay up-to-date, it's best to subscribe to the developers mailling list or one of the quazillion other mailling lists
I didn't want to discuss the development as such, only the fact that news about the state of the engine is far and few in between.
As you may or may not know, the solid (collision detection) library wich was used in blender only became open-source last month. HARD work since then is being done in the experimental blender version "Tuhopuu"
I've heard about Solid and the planned implementation thereof, but this was a few months ago. If you are hard at work and don't have time to inform the community about this, you have to tell us that to! ;-)

But I'm glad to here that you are hard at work with engine-related issues :D
The main drawback with the current engine is that it only accepts spherical collision objects. In my TRONTANK-game for instance I had to have a ballon double the size of the tank above it which detected collisions as to stop them from moving thru walls.
I'm not sure what the exact features of the solid library are and if this will ever be included
What do you mean? What might never be included - where?

It's better to test the gameengine in Tuhopuu though, would you rather have a gameengine in the normal release wich was buggy and changed every release? maybe even making bf-blender incompatible with future releases?
Hm, now you're loosing me, I thought we discussed Blender and possibly Tuhopuu - bf-blender what is that?

Sure there must be a stable enough version of Tuhopuu to be included with a release of Blender? It has, after all, been around for a while.
I now you guys are working hard on Blender, but I feel it is only focused toward the animation/still-rendering-community. I know they are the largest part - but how large is that part contra the real-time only users?
hmm, I feel most of the work being done (with the exception of the renderer-enhancements) is on the modelling part of blender, wich benefits all users.
Unless current .blend-files are fully backward-compatible with 2.25, it is indirectly as I said. And even so, it would be cumbersome to switch between versions.

/johnn

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If you do nothing - nothing will happen

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Zarf
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Re: Engine users ignored!

Post by Zarf »

johnn wrote: The current engine/version has been around without updates for about two years! Come on! Give us real-time users something new!
I think that most development is going into areas that the developers are interested in although there has been some in the game engine. Regardless I think that if there isn't 'enough' game engine development then it behooves the game engine users to start activley developing the engine themselves, otherwise they will not only be at the mercy of others in terms of the quantity of development, but also the *quality* of development.

Blender development is done on people's free time, you can't reasonably expect them to spend it on somehting that dosn't interest them too much.

Cheers,
Zarf

theeth
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Post by theeth »

AFAIK, there's two developers working actively on getting the game engine back.

Martin
Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans.
- John Lennon

johnn
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Post by johnn »

theeth wrote:AFAIK, there's two developers working actively on getting the game engine back.

Martin
This sounds great, but when do they plan to finish their work? I hunger for information you see!

/johnn

theeth
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Post by theeth »

nothing planned yet.

Martin
Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans.
- John Lennon

johnn
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Post by johnn »

So what you guys are saying is; use Tuhopuu (I'll never remember how to spell that word) and stay up to date with it, and hopefully files created in there will work with an official engine-with-blender release?

/johnn

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"If you do nothing - nothing will happen"

levon
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Post by levon »

johnn wrote:So what you guys are saying is; use Tuhopuu (I'll never remember how to spell that word) and stay up to date with it, and hopefully files created in there will work with an official engine-with-blender release?

/johnn
that or use 2.25 and hope that files you create with that will be compatible.

JWalton
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Post by JWalton »

just for some historical perspective, back when NaN was ONLY developing the game engine
the OTHER people were complaining about not enough render/animation work was being
done. wait long enough and it'll happen, or now you can do it yourself :-) there just isn't
enough people to ever do everything at once.

Doogs
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Post by Doogs »

John relax solid is currently being implemented. The crescent Dawn team has been waiting as well but in the meantime we've been working ;) so just wait. it will come soon.

jd-multi
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Post by jd-multi »

It just sounds nice that people are working on it, but some people will see some info like beta's to see if it's really true. But for so far I know, just wait, I know now that they are working on it, and that takes my curious away and makes me relaxt and wait until I see 2.3x with the game engine in it. Hopefully it's 2.32 or 2.33, but I think it should be more around 2.35, just wait and we see. 8)

Analogy
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Post by Analogy »

JWalton wrote:just for some historical perspective, back when NaN was ONLY developing the game engine the OTHER people were complaining about not enough render/animation work was being done.
And I was one of those people. Honestly, I have no use for, and don't anticipate ever having a use for the game engine. I use blender for rendering, and have been ever since 1.5 and the game engine is just useless bloat. I'm thankful that the gameblender stuff stopped working, it made people realize that there's a rendering engine in there, too.

I have a friend who thinks the same thing, and we're thinking of maintaining a fork with all of the gameblender stuff taken out.

Sutabi
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Post by Sutabi »

You know I was a larger gameblender user and I still use blender for rendering.

The game engine is fine for walkthoughs and so on bu i've found soooo many limitation when you want to expand and develope a professional game. Even if the Solid is back in it will still need furter development, so just simply wait. Nothing gets dopne if everyone if complaining

levon
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Post by levon »

Analogy wrote:
JWalton wrote:just for some historical perspective, back when NaN was ONLY developing the game engine the OTHER people were complaining about not enough render/animation work was being done.
And I was one of those people. Honestly, I have no use for, and don't anticipate ever having a use for the game engine. I use blender for rendering, and have been ever since 1.5 and the game engine is just useless bloat. I'm thankful that the gameblender stuff stopped working, it made people realize that there's a rendering engine in there, too.

I have a friend who thinks the same thing, and we're thinking of maintaining a fork with all of the gameblender stuff taken out.
whats the point of removing the game engine in your own fork? it wont decrease the file size much, and it will clean up on button.

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