Extrude popup

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Monkeyboi
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
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Post by Monkeyboi » Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:39 pm

good idea dcuny!

Or maybe more to reflect whats actually in Blender:

  • Extrude Grab/Move
    Extrude Rotate
    Extrude Scale
    Extrude Along Normal

ideasman
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Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 2:37 pm

Post by ideasman » Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:34 pm

dcuny wrote:It would be nice if the "hidden" Extrude options appeared in the menu, instead of being hidden in hotkeys as they currently are. How about adding:
  • Free
  • Along Normal
  • X
  • Y
  • Z
like they are in Wings3D? If nothing else, Along Normal should be added to the menu.

Whats wrong with just using the grab functions x/y/z'd constraints?
And hitting alt+S to extrued allong normals?

chrismontijn
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2002 6:48 pm

Post by chrismontijn » Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:35 am

ideasman wrote:Whats wrong with just using the grab functions x/y/z'd constraints? And hitting alt+S to extrued allong normals?
I couldn't agree more. The whole point was to get rid of the popup for workflow speedup. I think Guitargeeks implementation is the most perfect for that. Once you work with it, you remember the keys fast enough...

Chris

Money_YaY!
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 2:47 pm

Post by Money_YaY! » Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:25 am

What is all of this ?
I did it really easy
To remove the pop up. This was told to me by intrr. And it works !

remove in editmesh.c, void extrude_mesh() and the if before it.

That is all I did , the work flow does not change at all no weird new thoughts on how things work, it just removes the pop up so it goes a little faster. Sometimes it is good to extrude and escape so the verts stay there for sharp edges untill a real method for sharp edges is created. I thank GG for hos work and ideas towards all of this. Maybe it should be in blender, I do not really know, test it in tuhopuu I guess.

^v^

guitargeek
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Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 12:54 am
Location: Greenville,IL USA

Post by guitargeek » Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:30 am

I think the major thrust of 'all this' is to think about if extrude should work as a single command or remain the combination of 2 commands. Yes it is very obvious and easy to just remove the popup, but in JUST doing that, you cannot cancel the 1st of the 2 commands, just the 2nd. So if you just get rid of the popup and you cancel, you are always left with the extruded verts unmoved and have to press U to get rid of them.

Thinking objectively and not being attached to 'the way blender has always done it, so it must be unfallible and perfect no matter how quirky' way of thinking, if any other program had a command that when you cancelled it, it left a side effect only reversing 1/2 the command, you would probably call it sloppy programming. That is the root of why I am looking at this issue.

If you want extruded verts that are in the same location as the verts they were extruded from, I believe it is counter-intuitive to cancel the extrude to get the result, rather than to just constrain their position and confirm, thus completing the extrude. Cancelling should always be like you never started the task in the first place.

Money_YaY, that is why this is more than commenting out a pupmenu line.

Everyone else, I'm really not trying to be a butt. Although as I read my posts, it seems that way :?

Johnny

P.S. The multi-extrude business is just icing on the toolkit cake and not the real meat of the issue (mixaphorically speaking)

niket
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 4:36 pm

Post by niket » Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:49 am

ideasman wrote:
dcuny wrote:It would be nice if the "hidden" Extrude options appeared in the menu, instead of being hidden in hotkeys as they currently are. How about adding:
  • Free
  • Along Normal
  • X
  • Y
  • Z
like they are in Wings3D? If nothing else, Along Normal should be added to the menu.

Whats wrong with just using the grab functions x/y/z'd constraints?
And hitting alt+S to extrued allong normals?
alt+S is not sufficient if i want to move 1.45 units in normal direction how would i know where it is? :?:
if this is (extrude alone normal) implemented well then i the happiest blenderer.

niket
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 4:36 pm

Post by niket » Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:57 am

of-topic but pls..
extrude in local X,Y,Z is not work well if local direcions is diff then globle direction. mean if any face has local X is 45 degree from globle X axis then if i extrude 2 units in local X (by hitting double X) . i only get actully someting between 1 unit and 2 unit. not excatly 2 units i do not understand yet. if i make some mistake pls help... :)

ideasman
Posts: 0
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 2:37 pm

Post by ideasman » Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:42 am

niket wrote:
ideasman wrote:
dcuny wrote:It would be nice if the "hidden" Extrude options appeared in the menu, instead of being hidden in hotkeys as they currently are. How about adding:
  • Free
  • Along Normal
  • X
  • Y
  • Z
like they are in Wings3D? If nothing else, Along Normal should be added to the menu.

Whats wrong with just using the grab functions x/y/z'd constraints?
And hitting alt+S to extrued allong normals?
alt+S is not sufficient if i want to move 1.45 units in normal direction how would i know where it is? :?:
if this is (extrude alone normal) implemented well then i the happiest blenderer.


Fair enough, but this would need to be added into blender as a new transform type called (translate verts allong there normals). There is currently nothing in blender that moves verts allong there normals (AFAIK) (scals yes/ move no)

- Cam

Monkeyboi
Posts: 251
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 1:24 pm
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Contact:

Post by Monkeyboi » Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:54 pm

ideasman: Shrink/fatten moves verts along their normals. But an Extrude Along Normal command would still be very good to have. Try Wings, and you can hardly live without it.

Bellorum
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:27 pm

Post by Bellorum » Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:15 pm

Try Wings, and you can hardly live without it.
Read somewhere that the Blenderteam was working on getting more "wings 3d"-like modeling into Blender. This is absolutely the right way to go. If that happened, a lot fewer people would use Wings 3D for modeling, since Blender would be a more complete package. Especially those who model in Wings 3D and then import into Blender.
There's no such thing as democracy. There's only the tyranny of one, and the tyranny of many.

Bellorum
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Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:27 pm

Post by Bellorum » Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:15 pm

edit: double post, sorry:)
Last edited by Bellorum on Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There's no such thing as democracy. There's only the tyranny of one, and the tyranny of many.

tuinbels
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2002 4:19 pm

Post by tuinbels » Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:58 pm

nikit wrote:if this is (extrude alone normal) implemented well then i the happiest blenderer.
Monkeyboi wrote:deasman: Shrink/fatten moves verts along their normals. But an Extrude Along Normal command would still be very good to have. Try Wings, and you can hardly live without it.
look here:
http://www.blender.org/modules.php?op=m ... ude+normal

or here:

http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic. ... ude+normal

and in a thread started by Bellorum:
http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic. ... ude+normal

and even here:
http://www.google.com/search?q=extrude+ ... 8&oe=utf-8

:roll: :roll: :roll:

I know its just a plugin but it is better than nothing...

niket
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 4:36 pm

Post by niket » Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:05 pm

tuinbels,
Thanx for your efforts but we all know that using scripts for like these tool is just temporary it lower your speed so practically just a toy.. sorry to say but it is fact.

ilac
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 8:24 am

Post by ilac » Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:00 pm

niket wrote:tuinbels,
Thanx for your efforts but we all know that using scripts for like these tool is just temporary it lower your speed so practically just a toy.. sorry to say but it is fact.
Don't know where you're getting your facts from but I strongly suggest you change your sources...

You have a right to your opinion but you have no right to call your opinion a fact.

dcuny
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2003 11:22 pm

Post by dcuny » Sat Jan 24, 2004 1:24 am

I agree that you should have the option to turn off the menu. It makes things faster for the expert user. But by default, it should be turned on.

If you show people that Extrude Along Normal and Extrude Along X exist in the menu (along with the mnemonics), what harm have you done? There's no real loss of time, since your reaction time is far slower than Blender's time to render the menu. There's no additional work (i.e.: you don't have to move the mouse), since the default value is selected and placed under the mouse pointer.

As an added benefit, you've shown them the keystrokes, so next time they might not have to use the menu at all.

One of the functions of the GUI - and the reworking of the Blender interface - is to expose functionality. Adding the option to the menu offers a way to accomplish this.

One could argue that people should know that some particular key combination constrains an operation to a particular axis. But as far as I can tell, there's no way to discover this from within Blender. Putting the option in the menu is more convenient - and faster - than making the user look it in a manual or an HTML page.

It's not a matter of people being too lazy to learn things. Keep in mind that while it might be easy for you to remember a particular key combination, but I can't remember them for the life of me. (All I can remember is that some Alt/Ctrl/Meta key is used. Or is that some other program?) And what about the user who has to bounce from one application to another? Should they be penalized for not being able to keep the magic keystrokes of a dozen applications in their heads?

As far as scripts are concerned, they do create an extra step (actually several extra steps) for the user, since you can't call them from hotkeys or the menu. Wings users use Extrude Along Normal all the time - it's one of the most common operations in box modelling. Imagine that you had to call a script every time you'd do Grab, and you get the idea. :P

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