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Question about Verse and Blender...

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 6:14 pm
by Homer_S
With the news on the front page what exactly does this mean?

Will Blender continue to be a stand alone app?

And can somebody explain what exactly verse is? I think I have an idea but if someone could just give a simple synopsis of what verse is? Kinda like an Idiots guide to verse and what the Euro funding will do to both projects.

Thanks in advance.

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:47 pm
by david2
I'm not sure what exactly this means for Blender, but concerning verse, I can direct you to the link on the left-hand side of the page.

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:59 pm
by kniffo
exactly -

well for blender its means, that many people could work on one 3D-project. The example on the Eskils page shows, what it is all about: You now can connect Gimp with Blender and paint a texture in Gimp and have it updated as a UV-wrapping on a plane in Blender ...

Think of a COM for 3D applications - you know, that you can include different dosument classes in Word or Excel - its the same with Verse. A lot of applications are waiting to be connected to it in the future ...

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 5:36 pm
by eskil
I dont really know what the verse-blender collaboration will bring (but i know it will be great)

But i do know some things for sure:

- Blender will remain open source.
- Blender will be controlled by the community and the foundation.
- it will be a stand alone app (if not more then one app!)


What it exactly means in terms of what new projects will be started and what code will be written , i dont know today but I and Ton will start discussing this imminently.

I updated the web page with some more info so i hope that helps. Im going to write more soon. if you want to be involved more join the mailing list.

E

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 8:02 pm
by Homer_S
eskil wrote:I dont really know what the verse-blender collaboration will bring (but i know it will be great)

But i do know some things for sure:

- Blender will remain open source.
- Blender will be controlled by the community and the foundation.
- it will be a stand alone app (if not more then one app!)


What it exactly means in terms of what new projects will be started and what code will be written , i dont know today but I and Ton will start discussing this imminently.

I updated the web page with some more info so i hope that helps. Im going to write more soon. if you want to be involved more join the mailing list.

E
Thanks for the reply eskil. I have taken a look at your site and the concept behind verse is intriguiging. I could really see verse as an invaluable tool for both opesource blender projects and professional blender projects or anywhere where people have to work closely together on projects.
One more question that I did not see on your website (although it may be there and I didn't see it :oops:) Can verse be used to tie blender to a number of servers so that rendering times can be cut? Or is it more of an integrated development platform so that many people can work on the same model or uvmap at the same time?
Thanks again for your response and the other responses from the people who have responded on this thread. I really appreciate it.

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 8:34 pm
by blendix
Homer_S wrote:One more question that I did not see on your website (although it may be there and I didn't see it :oops:) Can verse be used to tie blender to a number of servers so that rendering times can be cut? Or is it more of an integrated development platform so that many people can work on the same model or uvmap at the same time?
Thanks again for your response and the other responses from the people who have responded on this thread. I really appreciate it.
Verse would be perfectly suited for this, and I can perfectly imagine someone coding this, as Verse would make this relatively easy. If on each server would be a render client, you could just have one application telling each of the clients which part of the image or which frames of the animation to render.

A cluster or multiprocessor machine would probably still be faster, as the processors can access a common memory, and you don't have to do too many duplicate calculations (especially with raytracing I think). Maybe a solution could be found here too. I don't know, since I don't really know how renderers work internally. But anyway, not everyone has such equipment, so distributed rendering certainly would be nice.

Because can handle pretty much any data, there are so may possible applications, that it is almost impossible to give an overview of what could be done with it. What you will find on the verse website are just examples. What Verse will look like to the user, is all up to the imagination of the people writing applications for it.

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:04 pm
by aoe2bug
- it will be a stand alone app (if not more then one app!)
to me these are two different things? :? if its stand-alone theres only one app, if its "more than one" its not one app anymore. I hope blender does not become a collection of apps that have different puposes, IDK why but that just seems to be bad to me :(.

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 6:48 am
by FF8Jake
aoe2bug wrote:
- it will be a stand alone app (if not more then one app!)
to me these are two different things? :? if its stand-alone theres only one app, if its "more than one" its not one app anymore. I hope blender does not become a collection of apps that have different puposes, IDK why but that just seems to be bad to me :(.
It sounds good to me. Having multiple apps for different purposes would IMO be faster and more simple for the end user, since we don't have to take alot of extras just to get a few features we want.

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:10 pm
by ox
I can see that the world wide science community could use someting like a blender/verse hybred for a multitude of creative purposes.

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 6:04 pm
by IngieBee
Well, what it can mean is having an awsome virtual reality setup. Where you could create anything and script anything, such as is done in Seonc life only you'd have two more advantages. 1. more freedom to truly do anything, and 2. freeware, it could be made so that this "virtual reality" lives partly on everyone's computer, which would dole out the computing and serving power yet keep the "world" perpetual.

Why? i'm not sure, it's just so cool, hee hee hee

Love Ingie

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:04 pm
by aoe2bug
It sounds good to me. Having multiple apps for different purposes would IMO be faster and more simple for the end user, since we don't have to take alot of extras just to get a few features we want.
Thats a good point, i just don't want it to get to the point where it is really segmented and its like "which app do i use". Autocad is like this now, with like 4 diff apps where there was one. It would be cool though if (eventually), blender was more modular, but maybe not to the point of having actual different apps. (Just if you wanted to do X, module X would be loaded, and buttonwindow X would become available.) :idea: ... just a random thought....

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:56 pm
by steve_t
correct me if I am wrong....
from what I understand and read verse has noooothing to do with modularizing blender. from what I understand it just allows many somilar and dissimilar programs... such as the gimp, game engines, blender and many other applications to share information in real time.

To me a possibly more exciting is the prospect of being able to share data between blenders to have many people work on the same project and the same models in real time at the same time but not nessisarily in the same location or even the same country.

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:50 am
by aoe2bug
No, your right steve_t. I just brought up the topic because eskil mentioned it. :) sorry.

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:54 pm
by eskil
Well, to be honest I dont really know.

There is a lot of thing one has to consider. No one has ever build a 3d application specifically for a open source community before. So the designs have to be different. Doing things modular is always a good idea. but if that means one or more apps i dont know. We have been talking about a setup with 3 apps, a front end with an interface, a verse server and a back end that would be the actual application that does to computations. and then there would be a plug in interface too. Now the idea is that the user would hardly notice this. If you want to run it like an ordinary app you just run a script and all 3 are started and connected together.

Having verse thrown in the mix makes it possible to connect to all kinds of other apps, but that doesnt mean that they become part of the blender project or that blender have to take them in to consideration.

Right now have started programming OpenGL 2.0 and it is great! so obviously we would like to support that for our project right?

I have just been hired by KTH to work on this, but i havent got a computer or anything else yet so it is kind of a slow start (and I have been to kraftwerk konserts too, tonight is my third in three days. but its my last so i will be fully focused on programming again tomorrow...)

E