Why Blender progresses strangely?

General discussion about the development of the open source Blender

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mmh
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Why Blender progresses strangely?

Post by mmh » Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:59 pm

I find its evolution goes in a weird way.
Don't take it bad, i never thank you enough for your hard work, ALL!

Blender 3D doesn't need high-end Features (for moment), but strong Features.

I don't like its organisation... your "todo-list" is chaotic. There are too many stuffs add in all ways. (a piece of RT here, a piece of Gui Facelift there, another piece of features etc etc...

It has to be a logic in your ... mmh in your enterprise.
Please don't follow the Linux way, take rather an OSS way.

What are needed IMMEDIATELY and are fundamental :

- Object Manager!!!!!! Layer Manager!!!! (dead or alive)
- Undo/Redo at any level with good use of Memory (if possible :) )
- Improving Viewport visualisation (eg: Especially Backfaces, hide/don't select points behind face in shaded view)
- Obvious Modeling Features (get inspired by Wings, it is open, okay the functions are done in another language, but concept still same)
- UV Editor (groups, snapshot for export UV_Mesh, etc)
... i forgot a lot of thing (especially about animation)

About render engine, why don't you do to integrate totally another (already advanced) open renderer? (Aqsys, Yafray, Pixie, POV etc)
I don't think Ton could do all alone.
I should think it's better to rebegin all or take another way than try - hopelessly - to arrange some buggy piece of feature with obselete code Thus the most obvious would be to integrated an advanced OpenRenderer. (eg: Xsi and Mental Ray)

well, in another word don't reinvent the wheel. (This is a Linux's habit, this is NOT an OSS habit!)


And please, listen users, don't be tight don't block you for newbies or purists.


+

IoN_PuLse
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Post by IoN_PuLse » Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:19 pm

Excuse me, but why should anyone listen to requests when you put them this way?
Blender 3D doesn't need high-end Features (for moment), but strong Features.
That's your opinion, but others think differently. Good for you.
Please don't follow the Linux way, take rather an OSS way.
This makes no sense.
What are needed IMMEDIATELY and are fundamental :
Another personal opinion. That's nice.
About render engine, why don't you do to integrate totally another (already advanced) open renderer? (Aqsys, Yafray, Pixie, POV etc)
IT'S BEEN DONE 2.32 PLEASE
And please, listen users, don't be tight don't block you for newbies or purists.
I'm ready to block you, your post is full of personal requests and you seem to assume that features you want should be regarded higher than others.

Sorry for being harsh but these kind of posts are NOT helpful to anyone.

mmh
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Post by mmh » Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:11 am

No problem IoN_Pulse, you are right on some part... maybe there are personals requests but i shoud think there are justified.

i have to make an highlight, i don't impose anything, i just provide a short feedback, maybe it wasn't well done, but it's mine.
I should think you have take my post in a wrong way.
Please don't follow the Linux way, take rather an OSS way.
About this, Linux spares ressources, reinvent, reinvent and reinvent, deny ideas etc..., a logical open software is concentrate around an objectif clear and coherent and with a real open mind. (sorry i can't "translate" correctly my idea, my english - as you can see - is beautiful :) )
What are needed IMMEDIATELY and are fundamental :
Another personal opinion. That's nice.
sorry, you took it as an order, i've just highlighted the kind of importance. But please, explain, what does is it for you fundamental or fancy???

About render engine, why don't you do to integrate totally another (already advanced) open renderer? (Aqsys, Yafray, Pixie, POV etc)
IT'S BEEN DONE 2.32 PLEASE
No, this is an exportation here, not an Integration. I know the capabilities of Ton, but i have more confidence in a team who works only on a Renderer than a man (Also sympathetic) who does it alone + 1000 others stuffs.
It's my right to think that.
your post is full of personal requests and you seem to assume that features you want should be regarded higher than others.
Yes i do, prove that what i have just stated isn't useful or fundamental... please.
I imagine that you are those which cries for a stuff up tendency like radiosity/Fur although they can't model or compose an image correctly. <-- cool attack :)

what is the interest if you can't manage correctly and quickly a scene as well in logistics as of visibility.

I should agree about all is possible with the current, but at which price?


Anyway, i'm the first who recognize the quality of blender and i know its potential.



see ya

theeth
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Post by theeth » Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:38 am

About render engine, why don't you do to integrate totally another (already advanced) open renderer? (Aqsys, Yafray, Pixie, POV etc)
IT'S BEEN DONE 2.32 PLEASE
No, this is an exportation here, not an Integration. I know the capabilities of Ton, but i have more confidence in a team who works only on a Renderer than a man (Also sympathetic) who does it alone + 1000 others stuffs.
The yafray code is an integration, even though it has exporting capacities. And it is being done directly by both Jandro and Eeshlo from the YafRay coding team.

Martin
Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans.
- John Lennon

ilac
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Post by ilac » Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:41 am

mmh wrote:Anyway, i'm the first who recognize the quality of blender and i know its potential.
Actually, you seem to have absolutely no clue as to what is going on behind the scenes. Read the maillists (and do so for a month or two) then come back and voice your opinion. At this stage - coincidentally right or wrong - you do not seem to know what you are talking about.

Goofster
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Post by Goofster » Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:51 am

hmmm, a few things that bother me about your point of view:

- most importantly, the GUI overhaul (not facelift, more like a complete explosion and then building it all up again) was carefully planned.

- some "big" features can be better if they are integrated from the ground up in blender 3.0, especially undo/redo.

- I think it IS good to reinvent the wheel and it IS and OSS habit. Aren't we here to build an exciting pieve of software that has entirely different approaches to 3D? if we wouldn't reinvent the wheel you'd be stuck with a 3Dmax interface right now.

- lastly, LONG LIVE CHAOS. I like the fact that every day I open a forum or enter an IRC chatroom and find someone working on a corner of blender that I never even looked at.

How exciting would blender be if we knew what features would be implemented in the next few years?....

nevertheless, I agree on most of your "feature requests"

Roel

IoN_PuLse
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Post by IoN_PuLse » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:07 am

I imagine that you are those which cries for a stuff up tendency like radiosity/Fur although they can't model or compose an image correctly. <-- cool attack
Not even going to touch that one.

jeotero
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Post by jeotero » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:09 am

yeah long live to CHAOS, you get features that are not even in other applications :P

simple example flash output, hehe it cost in other packages :)

mmh
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Post by mmh » Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:07 pm

Ilac: i did read the BF_mailing list, and i did know about my (not only mine) features's requests (rather Fundamental request :) )

And i'm the first one to suggest an Object Manager on BF_ML (look at shodan's posts) but i forget this topic because i wasn't listened and anyway Thorsten manages well even i don't agree with what he does (sublayer, representation's ways etc etc)

i must admit, i have some lacks about real works done in background for renderer but we get the feeling that blocks or slow down all.

Goofster
- I think it IS good to reinvent the wheel and it IS and OSS habit. Aren't we here to build an exciting pieve of software that has entirely different approaches to 3D? if we wouldn't reinvent the wheel you'd be stuck with a 3Dmax interface right now.
I didn't explain myself correctly. i agree with what you say but it isn't like that. But yeah, for blender i took a wrong metaphor.
By pity, Please, don't take anymore 3DSmax as reference!! please!! :)


Anyway, it's cool to speak with you

E2CMonkeyboy
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I second the motion

Post by E2CMonkeyboy » Sun Feb 15, 2004 6:55 am

DONT RE-INVENT the darn wheel - its open source now.

Also, speaking of re-invent - I want the old tutorials back - this oldiste.blender.whatever points back to the blender.org site. If you are going to point out that the old tutorials are for blender <= 2.25 then don't - blender looks different but it is still blender. Please bring those back also...

What happened to releasing the pdf for the 2.3 manual once 1000 copies were purchased - I noticed that went away and nobody notices...

What is with elysiun.whatever - am I just an ignorant cuss - or is there a whole 5 tutorials on that site - I've tried just about every link I can see - but I only find 5 tutorials, a lot of vaperware "contests" and no real action - why does everyone say that this is the "coolest" site? Seems empty to me.

Also, I notice the forums are empty in the bf.blender area - for the projects sections I notice for example about 13 posts in the tonupuh forum - is that reall all there has been since feb 02?

Really - am I missing something - or is the blender community reall that small? I offered to help but got no response back from someone called b@rt for the manual. I can see this lin-ego thing goes a long way with "open source" software - no wonder miscrosoft and 3Dmax have no worries.

-my 2 cents

Monkey

dreamsgate
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Post by dreamsgate » Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:17 am

whoa, who rained on your parade?

for tutorials go back to elysiun and click on Blender General, first thread inside or just go here:

http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13380

there are some 1100 tutorials posted in that list in a variety of languages.

wavk
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Post by wavk » Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:32 am

I think this is a stupid way of promoting your own requests. Nuff said.

ilac
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Post by ilac » Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:33 am

What's with all the ignorant trolls we're getting on blender.org? :roll:
Must be the price of popularity! :D


:cry:

sten
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Post by sten » Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:03 pm

heh :?

well about the 2.3 manual, the designed new manual, meaning the pdf won't probably happen, but the "open content" from the new upcoming manual well be free as html-document with screenshots, *not* the designed pdf...I have inside information about that ;)

and to continue that path, the printed manual are at the last stage on checking before print...so it is very close to go into production, to soon start going for printing...so keep out for newsrelease very soon.

and also, to buy the 2.3 manual means also you support development for Blender in future :)

cheers!

thorwil
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Post by thorwil » Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:40 pm

mmh wrote:And i'm the first one to suggest an Object Manager on BF_ML (look at shodan's posts) but i forget this topic because i wasn't listened and anyway Thorsten manages well even i don't agree with what he does (sublayer, representation's ways etc etc)
I posted several times on the bf-funboard list, there's a forum thread, and I always ask for feedback.
And now I come to know that you 'don't agree' with my proposal ...
Maybe I'm a bit too sensitive, but: Voice your concerns on-topic on the list, or in the appropiate thread, or just shut up!

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