Why Blender progresses strangely?

General discussion about the development of the open source Blender

Moderators: jesterKing, stiv

E2CMonkeyboy
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 6:32 am
Location: CalIfonIYA (Arnold....)

I hate grabbing my CO2 canister

Post by E2CMonkeyboy »

but I'm guessing unixminion uses windows too - to play his games. Killing 10,000 zylons going to be on you resume?

Folks ( you too minion ) I'm here to help blender - I didn't ask for a feature - I didn't ask for a book - I am once again a hobbyist only. BUT, blender has character, and like the movie Pulp Fiction - "character goes a long way - but its got to be 10 times more charming than that pig on Green Achres..." to punch a hole in the "for cost" software.

And unixminion - peace brother..be cool! 8) . my discussion is about blender not you, not me. I'll buy the book - believe me - but I want some up front stuff - if they trully want to sell it - give me a tease chapter or two.... And I'll personally buy one of their families (immediate only) dinner as well as pay for the book. I'm not a cheap bastard - but a prudent one.

That's all

And yes, you caught me - I've been using WindowsXP for 4 months straight now - but I do have Mandrake 9.2 on the machine that I use from time to time - its just that I'm tired of downloading another XMMS like player because someone developed another one - or compiling another program that took me forever to download and find I have to download another 10 libraries and compile them too then update this .so that .so and re-link ldconfig blah blah blah. You know - when your young and things are just starting to drop and grow fuzz (you following me minion?) you like to go out and mow the lawn - when you get older - you hire someone to do it for you...

cessen
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:43 pm

Post by cessen »

It seems that quite an argument has popped up in this thread.

Here is my take on it:

I couldn't care less whether or not Blender is used to make feature films. Why? Because *I* don't use it to make feature films. I use it to tinker around with, and practice and develop my artistic abilities. And, eventually, I hope to make some nifty short animations with it.
Really, why should I care if it is used to make feature films? All I care about is whether I can use it for what I want to use it for, and if others in the Blender community can use it for what they want to use it for. And last time I checked, large movie studios weren't part of the Blender community.

I wasn't aware that we were competing with non-open-source software. I wasn't even aware that we were competing with other open-source software? Are we? And if we are, then why the hell are we?

Competition is not the point. Being better than the other guy (whether open source or not) is not the point. Being good enough for ourselves is the point. Making software that we can use for our own purposes is the point.

And I'm sure that the vast majority of the people working on Blender have paying jobs (or are still in school). For most of us, this is a free-time endevour. We're not starving our children so that we can work on Blender.
unixminion wrote:Oh yeah.. and I bet you use windows... peace out jackass.
Unixminion, I fail to see what that has to do with anything. You should try thinking before typing.

Michel
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 7:27 pm
Location: Somewhere below the rivers in Holland (but not Limburg)

Please stay polite and use good arguments instead of flaming

Post by Michel »

Hey unixminion,

please stay polite and use good arguments instead of flaming others, throwing insults and shouting. None of the latter 3 methods will help you in proving your points; as a matter of fact, they will only help in getting your posts ignored.

With regards,
Michel
You can have one of two things: Progress or Progress Reports.

mmh
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:12 pm

Post by mmh »

Hey Thorwil, i didn't say what you're doing is bad, i just find you do too much rather than keeping that simple.

Maybe i don't agree with some of your features, but at least you put your hand on an good subject. (layer/object manager). And that is very good.


please calm down and still courteous.

Wavk
you are stupid, REALLY STUPID to think that! And even if those were my own requests, it would/will be very useful... maybe you don't care about finding a better way of organizing correctly a scene.
Moreover, those aren't really hard to do (for a coder), undoubtedly easier than of complexes render's alogrithms.


You are really silly, when somebody says something which you don't agree (purist!!!), You disparage him. you benefit from your small blendies's status and then you grant yourselves the right to act in this way. So now i grant myself the right to treat you of sucker! (sorry for courtesy :) )


bye everyone

theeth
Posts: 500
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 5:47 am
Location: Montreal
Contact:

Post by theeth »

mmh: Where I come from, saying that people are really REALLY stupid and silly is not really a way to increase your credibility.

However, I won't stoop to your level and call you a sucker, even though it wouldn't really be uncalled for.

Calm down yourself.

Martin
Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans.
- John Lennon

E2CMonkeyboy
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 6:32 am
Location: CalIfonIYA (Arnold....)

Can't we all just get a long?

Post by E2CMonkeyboy »

To help improve blender.

..........I once though myself to be a programmer (I even have a comp sci degree :) ) and find myself doing something completely and uterly different with my life. My idle fingers dabble still but I am ashamed when I look at blenders code because it is trully an art in itself that it produces what it does . ... and yes - for free - AND it works GREAT on my Windows XP :)

..........I was thrown aback when I offered help - but I can see there are probably better hands at work than mine - but like I told them before - I'll sweep floors if that will bring blender to the forefront and yes - one day I would like to see blender splash across credits one day - why not? It would be the ultimate flatery AND give serious clout and CASH to feed ( or even create college funds for their kids ) to those coders who are actively working on blender - its only right. For my part I will buy the blender book - when it starts shipping I'll place an order - BUT it better be good! I've been burnt before ( Eidos - Dues Ex 2 - I won't even go there... )

..........And so - may all the blender minions ( even the uniX's ) strive and make blender what it WILL be. SO development goes in spurts - which brings us full circle to this discussion, though heated at times, it wouldn't be otherwise fruitfull if people weren't passionate about this awsome endevour.

-Monkey 8)

jesterKing
Site Admin
Posts: 207
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 12:48 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Can't we all just get a long?

Post by jesterKing »

E2CMonkeyboy wrote: I've been burnt before ( Eidos - Dues Ex 2 - I won't even go there... )
Totally off-topic, and certainly not searching for answers to this post: what is the newest, hottest "burn before" called again? Half-life 2?

:twisted:

/jesterKing

PS ignore this post :]

wavk
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 9:58 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Post by wavk »

mmh wrote:
Wavk
you are stupid, REALLY STUPID to think that! And even if those were my own requests, it would/will be very useful... maybe you don't care about finding a better way of organizing correctly a scene.
Moreover, those aren't really hard to do (for a coder), undoubtedly easier than of complexes render's alogrithms.


You are really silly, when somebody says something which you don't agree (purist!!!), You disparage him. you benefit from your small blendies's status and then you grant yourselves the right to act in this way. So now i grant myself the right to treat you of sucker! (sorry for courtesy :) )


bye everyone
I never said I disagreed with your feature requests. I just don't like the tone in which you bring them. A bit ego-centric if you ask me. I hold myself to my previous post!

ton
Site Admin
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 12:13 am
Contact:

Post by ton »

mmh: please calm down. If you can't restrict to normal mature reactions, then don't post anything or mail people personally.

I really detest removing postings or censoring text. You're on the edge.

mmh
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:12 pm

Post by mmh »

so wavk,
I didn't feel any bad tone... maybe my problem, i've explained, "!"
highlights a kind of importance, no an ORDER.


Theet: well done. Wavk has been smarter than you.


Ton: Big excuse, really, i know it's a silly game, and i regret that you had to read this.
Please feel ultra free to censor any of my texts, they succeeded to turn this thread against me although I have explained, thus now i don't care anymore.
Please don't waste your time on this pitiful thread

tot ziens Ton

ton
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Posts: 350
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Post by ton »

I think, what we need to work at:

- give better insight on projects that go on; too much happens on mailing lists and irc chat, and only the very active developers know what.
- work on an updated roadmap for blender
- rework projects listing, and assign more responsibility to teams to work on blender parts
- reorganize site, in way that allows more people to contribute content easier, but als which communicates better what goes on.
- feedback sessions (real live, irc, mail) on Blender future in general (and how money is spent)

This thread reflects a bit that communicating & developing BF plans needs to be more transparent... it's so darn important to get endorsement of the people who want to be involved. And make sure they *are* involved!

However, all this organization work is not something that happens easily with volunteers.. (manager-volunteers, where are you!). Thats why this EU project for example.

Now back to manual work... I want that darn thing printed! But I will come back to the above list soon... :)

leinad13
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 5:35 pm

Post by leinad13 »

Thanks ton its great to see that you are still alive and well, after all the manual work.

I'm actually very pleased with your response as i think you can also see that things arnt being communicated well enough. Recently i have found it hard to try and know whats going on. Im a subscriber to the mail lists and even then i read in some, that such and such was decided in an IRC chat and i never see the logs. Recently i have become a little upset with the state of the community. I dont think im the only one.

As you said we need a clearer objective, and better communication. I would love to try and maybe summerise some of the mailing lists for the community. In fact i might test this by summerising the last couple and posting them on here. Is this a good idea?
-------------
Over to you boffins

L!13

unixminion
Posts: 0
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:29 am

Re: Please stay polite and use good arguments instead of fla

Post by unixminion »

Michel wrote:Hey unixminion,

please stay polite and use good arguments instead of flaming others, throwing insults and shouting. None of the latter 3 methods will help you in proving your points; as a matter of fact, they will only help in getting your posts ignored.

With regards,
Michel
You're right.. I apologize for my actions... and I did not think before I typed..

That post just struck a vein (especially at 3:00AM when I'm all grouchy & stuff) I aplogize to EZMonkeyboy or whatever that nick is and to everyone that had to read my flaming garbage.

Eric
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:01 pm
Location: Sweden, Norrköping

Post by Eric »

E2CMonkeyboy wrote:I'll buy the book - believe me - but I want some up front stuff - if they trully want to sell it - give me a tease chapter or two.... And I'll personally buy one of their families (immediate only) dinner as well as pay for the book. I'm not a cheap bastard - but a prudent one.
Que?

Click the E-shop link to the left -> click on Product Info for the "Blender 2.3 Guide". Hard?...I don't think so.

E2CMonkeyboy
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 6:32 am
Location: CalIfonIYA (Arnold....)

No worries...

Post by E2CMonkeyboy »

Unix-minion (water under the bridge). :wink:

..........I'm glad that ton got to see this discussion we are having - he recognized what we all were so incoherently jabbering about and succinctly put it in a list.

...........And yes - communication is a problem and I don't have the time to join a chat that is taking place 1/2 way around the world in 9 time zones away.... Or honestly clobber my inbox with mass mailings... a web feature like these forums would be nice - I would think that it could be automatic with "voting" type posts I've seen elsewere for people to vote on feature updates that way folks get involved - drive the issue and ton N the gang get to see what folks really want (rather than people getting flamed because it's their "personal" request ) - There then can be FOR SALE signs (figuratively speaking of course) where individuals/groups can then get together and crunch out a solution in collaberation.

Over to you ton. You don't have to say a thing - but its nice to see your e-listening.

-Monkey

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