Bounty for a feature. Double dollars cold cash. Ver 2.1

General discussion about the development of the open source Blender

Moderators: jesterKing, stiv

Money_YaY!
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 2:47 pm

Bounty for a feature. Double dollars cold cash. Ver 2.1

Post by Money_YaY! » Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:32 pm

Bounty for a feature.
ver 2.1

Now that everybody has become aquatinted with the idea as a whole. The we shall move on instead to a new refinement.

Quick summary
Present a feature that you would like to see and think could be realistically created. Advertise a bounty for the idea, and respond to everybody's questions to get a union created with others to further develop the idea for creation and coding.

For the thinker
First you may propose any amount of cash or other methods, and others may join in on that amount like a betting game. This can be and should be through a common and successful program like iTunes music store, Amazon wish-list, or Paypal to name a few. A "prize contest" could also be created but we are just trying to get a feature created not a race for this and that, however it is still a good option for creation.

Create an HTML or PDF page that shows images text and implementation for the idea. Free html webspace is available if needed we can direct you in a common site that may help.
A standard work flow chart for the HTML could be like this.
  • How is it executed on screen, GUI, menu key, python or hotkey?
    How will others use it?
    Why would it be used?
    Where would it be used?
    How powerful and reusable is it?
    What can it replace in the code already?
    And if you have links to code, docs, demos, and other programs that use this feature.
And so forth....
It does need to be finely detailed to have others understand your methods of thought. Otherwise, a coder will not spend time trying to figure out for you what the idea is and it's method of declaration.

To participate please first understand that your idea may never ever get picked up but just poked at. And please only real honest people with real honest requests only. If you want the feature so badly but can not code then spend some time building the documentation for it instead.



For the coders side of things.
The code can come from The core of Blender, C++, C, or it can be from Python scripts. Neither is better nor worse. Just as long as everybody can use it and it does not crash constantly.
ALL code is not owned nor can be claimed by it's creators, it is 'given' to Blender and Blender holdings as it always was and always will be, nothing has changed, nobody owns the code, it is only given to everybody in the known world never ever singular, GPL. Got it !

The coders will then be able to assist you with the idea on a 1-5 point system of difficulty that it will take to be implement as a feature code wise. All so I am sure some of them will try and take it apart and deny it, but that is there own choosing. The user on the other hand just offers money and resource to aid in the creation of said feature.

As for the code, the flow can go like so.

When the code pasts all of these stages then it should be final in a time of payment.
  • (1) It will be inserted into a custom build for the person first.
    (2) When the code is clean and no longer crash prone it can be evaluated for Tuhopuu and or BF builds.
    (3) A community round of test builds needs to be inserted into the community for all to test.
    (4) A working patch be handed to the payer and the community for archival and editing purposes, with possible remanifestation incase the feature is lost at some point in the builds.
Now wether it is ever installed into a final BF Blender distro is another matter altogether, the guide lines to get a feature into that final build is a bit tougher, a new feature is only added if it is almost non buggy or if it is useful enough. All features presented are not put directly into BF and some have been lost in the shuffle.

To protect
There is no right or wrong answer to prevent a sour deal.
That said. This is a community project. Once a feature is created and the payer does not cough up the money to the respectable coder for their hard work, then the perp will no longer be seen as a trust worthy member to the 'pay for feature' idea. And it will be at the next coders discretion to make anything else for that so-and-so. Plus they will be put on a list of dead beats :D To harsh no? These rules apply the same to a coder, you may not just have ass something and expect cash, it must be at least stable enough for tuhopuu and others need to test it out before the final arrangements are created.

Now for the happy person with their new found feature they may arrange any agreeable type of payment method with the coder(s) like Paypal Itunes music or Amazon wish list etc... In the case of two coders on the feature then you settle it out :P



What is all of this for ?
Why simply for the best. To make blender even better than it is. Also their is a growing list leading to a bad trend of coders doing just want they want while users are left out in the cold for what they want. As this is not a commercial product coders do not get payed for their hard work, and you can not whip them when they do not do there job like a pay company :D, they only get virtual hugs and virtual b33r. This leads to coders doing what they want to achieve and thus spend time just doing there own thing. That is not enough. Their must be some sort of synergy to get both users and programers to work together on making blender better

Does that sound fair? I sure hope it is, I want to post some feature requests already.

On to the round up! Yip Yip! ^v^
Last edited by Money_YaY! on Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

emack
Posts: 0
Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 1:53 am

Post by emack » Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:45 am

I really like this. If people want a feature really badly, they can ante up and everyone benefits.

aoe2bug
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 2:31 am
Contact:

Post by aoe2bug » Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:00 am

This is a good idea, although its already being used for other open source projects. Theres a central website for it, but I dont remember what the url is :( (I'll look for it and post it). Infact, I think I remember there being a bounty for blender.... Anyway, this is a good idea and it would do well to have a blender-specific site for bounties. :D

EDIT: heres that site, but its not as popular as I'd thought, as it only has 8 entries:
http://sourcesupport.org/

Money_YaY!
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 2:47 pm

Post by Money_YaY! » Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:55 am

Oh boy I never knew of that. But eek prices high, oh wait they are a Pool, that is fine then.

Well Like I said I might as well be a first Geina Pigy.
http://aprilcolo.com/oh/plink/pick/chains/color.html

I present to you a tacky looking site but I just made it quick without css.

A feature request to Remove armatures and replace them with mesh.
I can offer 20$ , I know that is not much at all, but I am in hopes that oters will see the benfit of the idea. I can explain it further but will up date that when I get the CSS working.

So there you go. 20$ that is an insult I am sure. oh well :D

Darqus
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:44 pm

Post by Darqus » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:49 am

this seems like far better idea than mine about a render card for blender and will in fact attract more brainpower into blenders development! post a poll about this to see if all of the community agrees. i'm down for 50$ for an winxp 64bit opteron binary. also speaking about money, how would we have this work for us? a paypal acount with a counter? how would we know how large each bounty is?

i'm exited! :D

leinad13
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 5:35 pm

Post by leinad13 » Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:01 pm

I'm not i support this, i thought that open source was more about if the feature is a good idea and beneifit the whole comunity without breaking other features then the coders should be all to happy to implement it.

I dont think this solves our problem, our main problem is that we dont have enough coders that know the Blender ode well enough to implement features.

Maybe the money instead should be put as a prize in a best feature of the month competition or something like that. To try and increase development and the amount of coders.
-------------
Over to you boffins

L!13

Darqus
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:44 pm

Post by Darqus » Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:22 pm

actually i think we could have both a bounty system and a contest with prizes. just look at the amazing creativity as seen in the plugin buisness of the commercial 3d software segment. this even opens up the possibility of commercial plugins being develloped for blender. i don't know about you but i think that that will make blender alot stronger.

k0d3rz n33d K@sh otherwise they just keep blender devellopment as a little hobby project on the side or such.

the bounty system apart from the prize system will make for devellopment where it is needed the most and quickly. i for one support the idea whole heartedly and wish that there would be a poll about this with the beginning post at the head of it. it is obviously made by someone who would contribute devellopment but can't for economic reasons. just think about having someone dedicate full time coding for blender for a the price of a resturaunt dinner...

alltaken
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 7:08 am

Post by alltaken » Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:15 pm

in all seriousness for a feature to be put in at a price that will make it "not a hobby status" each person wanting a feature that they would pay for would need to pay $100+ for an easy feature and potentially $1000+ for a more complex feature.

easy feature is like adding a new shader or somthing, complex feature is adidng another form of object editing system lke nubrs, sub surf, etc...


in theory its a nice idea, but in reality $5,$10,$20 for a feature is an insult. (well not an insult but a serious understatment LOL)


Alltaken

Darqus
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:44 pm

Post by Darqus » Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:48 pm

now you're just being greedy :evil: well true the coders don't want to work for free full time, but do have to make them billionaires? every person doesen't have 100$ to spare, i could spare 30$ a week easy and i'm out of a job! does it matter to the coders if their bounty that caches out at completion of the project came from 2000 micropayments at 5$ to 100$ or just 12 people paying 1000$ each?

the point of having a bounty system is that no matter how small each donation is - it all adds up! the project wouldn't start before a certain amount is in dependent on complexity, so the armature project that begun this post would be say up at 800-1100 $ if it would take about 10 days, if the project isn't finished in time the coder/s would publish the code along with a todo list and could ask for more time/money

thinking realisticly works both ways. alot of people don't have credit/debitcards so there has to be multiple ways of donating to this bounty cause but i'm sure that that part would be worked out if we put our minds to it.

ideasman
Posts: 0
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 2:37 pm

Post by ideasman » Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:18 pm

leinad13 wrote:I'm not i support this, i thought that open source was more about if the feature is a good idea and beneifit the whole comunity without breaking other features then the coders should be all to happy to implement it.

I dont think this solves our problem, our main problem is that we dont have enough coders that know the Blender ode well enough to implement features.

Maybe the money instead should be put as a prize in a best feature of the month competition or something like that. To try and increase development and the amount of coders.
I disagree, the features must be accepted buy people who have CVS write access.
(possible arrange a comittie)
So its not like you can buy any feature you want into the main blender tree, sure if you want you can have your own blender version and pay for that to be maintained.

ideasman
Posts: 0
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 2:37 pm

Post by ideasman » Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:29 pm

alltaken wrote:in all seriousness for a feature to be put in at a price that will make it "not a hobby status" each person wanting a feature that they would pay for would need to pay $100+ for an easy feature and potentially $1000+ for a more complex feature.

easy feature is like adding a new shader or somthing, complex feature is adidng another form of object editing system lke nubrs, sub surf, etc...


in theory its a nice idea, but in reality $5,$10,$20 for a feature is an insult. (well not an insult but a serious understatment LOL)


Alltaken
(Im going to become unpopular on this forum)

OK- I want a feature, I want it soon, so I pay a coder to make it... add it in.
He works on it for say 2 weeks?

Id say he deserves $1000, he's got to eat, and it takes time to achieve the level where you can code complex features so he deserves better pay then a checkout chick.
Its not greedy, if you want serious results, you need to pay people accordingly, otherwise it will be in the 'when I get time' pile and we all know when those projects get done.

I have only had 4 features added in-
Numeric input
BG Image x/y offset
Seperate loose parts
and select same (somhow only appiered in 2.28 grrrr)

Im glad I had them added in and didnt pay $15 for them either.

- Cam

Caronte
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 12:53 am
Location: Valencia-Spain-Europe

Post by Caronte » Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:30 pm

Very, very good idea.

I like it. :)
Caronte.
"Some Day, All Will Be Digital"
http://www.nicodigital.com

Money_YaY!
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 2:47 pm

Post by Money_YaY! » Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:28 pm

Hmmm, everybody has some good strong points.

Lets start.

The tally would have to be hand counted untill I get the time to make a PHP bar script to show it's count, but I will do it when I get time.

Why I gave so little is because I can not give much more per week, next week I can add to it if it so looks like it needs it. Also in hopes that somebody else desides to contribute.

These small amounts will not even come close to making a career for a coder nor should they, it is only a free lunch or DVD or some small form of appreication to the coders hard work.

Further refinements to the idea are planned. And the speed of the coder is not an issue. This is not suppost to be timed it should be at the coders desion. If the coder is slow, then it is simple they do not get the 'Prize' .

This is only community supported. There is great chance somebody will get burned, but before any payments are created the community must test out the new feature.

And finaly, the idea was just to 'entice' coders to pick up on a few of the mass feature requests that exsit instead of doing there own thing to much. Of course it is still built on thieir free time. It is also just a thought to try and build more coders, or assist in a newbie scriptkiddie into the knowledge that is coding Blender style. If the feature does not work then nobody gets paid. If it does and the payer does not pay then there is born a little bit of an anger and it is avised that the coders stay away from further requests that the member has and can be put on a list to if it comes to that.

It is simple sorta, The 'prize' is offered then somebody(s) can deside that they want that 'prize', and if they don't build the feature then they do not get the loot.

^v^
to work on- Poll, stock bars, revise, css, blah.

Monkeyboi
Posts: 251
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 1:24 pm
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Contact:

Post by Monkeyboi » Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:40 pm

So the richest get the most influence? It sounds like a very capitalistic idea to me. I thought Blender was free of that. I like the fact that Blenders coders have gotten into Blender because of their will to improve the program, not plain cash. If they were doing things for money, features probably would be implemented much worse, because you are not focusing on getting it to work perfect and well, you are focusing on money. I love Blender, and I have some ambitions on how to improve it, therefore I am slowly starting to poke at the code so I can one day start coding real stuff.


Just look at the difference between BF-Blender and NAN-Blender. Great features and improvements are coming along like crazy now! You can compare it to Linux vs Windows:

Linux: developed with no bounty - flawless, stable, flexible
Windows: developed for money - buggy, faulty (I know, I am a Windows user myself)


Something to think about

sten
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 7:47 pm

Post by sten » Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:44 pm

Monkeyboi wrote: Linux: developed with no bounty - flawless, stable, flexible
Windows: developed for money - buggy, faulty (I know, I am a Windows user myself)


Something to think about
do as me ;) convert yourself into using Linux...I have done it!

and I am happy :D

Post Reply