Bounty for a feature. Double dollars cold cash. Ver 2.1

General discussion about the development of the open source Blender

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Eric
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Post by Eric » Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:00 pm

Monkeyboi wrote:So the richest get the most influence? It sounds like a very capitalistic idea to me. I thought Blender was free of that. I like the fact that Blenders coders have gotten into Blender because of their will to improve the program, not plain cash. If they were doing things for money, features probably would be implemented much worse, because you are not focusing on getting it to work perfect and well, you are focusing on money. I love Blender, and I have some ambitions on how to improve it, therefore I am slowly starting to poke at the code so I can one day start coding real stuff.


Just look at the difference between BF-Blender and NAN-Blender. Great features and improvements are coming along like crazy now! You can compare it to Linux vs Windows:

Linux: developed with no bounty - flawless, stable, flexible
Windows: developed for money - buggy, faulty (I know, I am a Windows user myself)


Something to think about
GNU is not anti-capitalistic.

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi » Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:36 pm

Eric: I wasen't saying GNU was anti-capitalistic, merely that the whole "money for features" thing is a bit of a capialistic idea.

Ztonzy: I will, I will!

Money_YaY!
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Post by Money_YaY! » Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:48 pm

Monkeyboi wrote:So the richest get the most influence? It sounds like a very capitalistic idea to me. I thought Blender was free of that. I like the fact that Blenders coders have gotten into Blender because of their will to improve the program, not plain cash. If they were doing things for money, features probably would be implemented much worse, because you are not focusing on getting it to work perfect and well, you are focusing on money. I love Blender, and I have some ambitions on how to improve it, therefore I am slowly starting to poke at the code so I can one day start coding real stuff.


Just look at the difference between BF-Blender and NAN-Blender. Great features and improvements are coming along like crazy now! You can compare it to Linux vs Windows:

Linux: developed with no bounty - flawless, stable, flexible
Windows: developed for money - buggy, faulty (I know, I am a Windows user myself)


Something to think about
Ok, it does not have to be just cash, it can be other stuff to. But something has to be done to start a clean up of the growing list of feature requests. Something, and ideas and challenge is one thing while money is another. I have talked to a few that wish coding for blender would get them some cash, so that is the idea.

If a corrupt coder starts demanding more currency then they themselves will deemed as a con, unless they have viable proof that it is impossible.

That is why the point system was thought of to. So a coder can appoint the amount of difficulty.

I need more input of course. As for the "prize contest", that is another viable method to think of.

JoOngle
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This is getting somewhat out of hands...

Post by JoOngle » Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:51 pm

I am very much against "money-for-features" too - basically
because it splits the whole "blender - 3d for everyone" idea
appart.

What was the idea behind freeing blender and collecting
all the funds? To free blender for everyone!

I agree that those who contribute their continous hard
work should somewhat get paid - but rather than
request money for features..a fund should be built
up storing money for blender-coders.

Everyone should be able to enjoy features, But I do agree
that we should have a paid-core-team of blender
coders. That might even help "encourage" proper
future developement for Blender. It's amazing that
they've gotten so far by so little.

Just my 3 cents :)

/JoOngle

jd-multi
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Post by jd-multi » Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:37 pm

Yeah would be great, only one thing has been forgotten, Blender is Free, so notice that when someone "buyed" a feature to be inplantated, you can't ask money back when people download it. Think about what kind of things you have to know before a company sends some money under a blender users name, and aftherwards send a police corps to the blender foundation because he wanted money from each user because they added his buyed feature to it. Because that won't be the first time that happens. So think about how to set it up, and write some things down, before someone pays money, like a contract or something that says, he pay, but won't get money from each download or something. :?

SirDude
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Post by SirDude » Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:42 pm

I personally say go for it.

I'm a developer, and I doubt the money would really affect what I choose to focus on.
I would say that it might offer some incentive to
people to look at code that they really don't want to touch, and get more involved with general user
requests.

Just some other misc comments from the thread.
I agree offering $20,$10,$5 is not an insult, it might not motivate someone as much but if you
get 100 people offering $20 you could probably get
someone to seriously look at doing something they might not otherwise take the time to work on.

I also think that in long run the code still benifits
everyone, and I don't see any downside to it. You'll still have plenty of development with other things, it just offers an encentive to the developers
to maybe push themselves a little more in the direction you want blender to evolve in.

To make things fair, I would say it needs to be
accepted into the bf-blender tree. (Basically this
means that the code has met at least some quality
factors, and is considered complete.)

As far as getting code accepted to the bf-blender tree you do not need to have cvs access to do this,
anyone can send an email to the group asking for code to be included. People that have cvs access are people that are involved and have made multiple additions/modifications to the code and have asked for the access.

Darqus
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Post by Darqus » Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:59 pm

there are two sides to each story, while the idea being a tad capitalist it is also a form of democracy and in a sense even more free than say the microsoft way with saying "though shallt buy this" and "though shallt do things the way we want you to" we can have a two way communication between developers, coders and end users!

the same way with the open source development scheme that is basicly the same deal - what the devellopers think the app should be like is what it ammounts to. the oss movement seems to be based around different ways of doing things instead of a cooperative effort, just think about it -1000 ways to make a cup of coffe, 380 ways to fold a paper, 15200 ways to operate a lightbulb, 150.000 ways to bake a pizza!!!. true - most of these apps are just projects meant to give the devellopers insight in how to do things, or to be a springboard into the workplace - but just think about what an app with 15.000 devellopment hours could be like, now compare that to 100 apps with 150 devellopment hours each. it just isn't the same thing and you aren't going to find enough coders to fill the ever increasing feature request list by having them work for nothing...

about the legal issue about copyright, have them sign a legally binding document approved by international law before being validated as "official blender mercinaries" and that should solve the whole thing. after all, the bounty would in some cases be big enough to buy a house, how much more could they ask?

ox
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Post by ox » Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:03 pm

Monkeyboi wrote:So the richest get the most influence? It sounds like a very capitalistic idea to me.
Not actually true. Those who are coding and contributing out of noble ideals will continue to do so because they believe in what they are doing. This is the heart and soul of open source. They will not be diverted.

On the other hand. There are those who are not in the position financially to contribute as they would like. This will enhance that possibility.

Then there are those who will contribute for strictly mercenary reasons if it is worth it. That doesn't mean their code is bad. Only that it was purchased. In the long run they are still supporting blender.

All I can see out of it is the possibility of expanding the coding base.
Monkeyboi wrote: Just look at the difference between BF-Blender and NAN-Blender. Great features and improvements are coming along like crazy now! You can compare it to Linux vs Windows:
Linux: developed with no bounty - flawless, stable, flexible
Windows: developed for money - buggy, faulty (I know, I am a Windows user myself)
Something to think about
Not to be contentious but I don't see a comparison. Blender is open source and free (as in freedom) Giving an incentive for code development is not the same as market manipulation methods. I don't see much difference between the present proposal and supporting blender by purchasing a book or pdf file. On the other hand comrade commisar Gates rules with an iron hand of commercially maipulated marketing techniques to suck the bloodout of the masses. Two completely different worlds and ideals. Same mammon.

ascotan
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Post by ascotan » Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:34 pm

So the richest get the most influence?
Hahahaha. Welcome to the real world.

I think its a good idea, However,
  • 1. This should be organized so ppl feel it's reputable - not just a forum posting.
    2. It probably needs something like paypal so ppl don't have to send $20's in the mail.
    3. Whoever takes the job should be recorded somehow so it's not an issue later.
As for $20 being an insult remember that one man's trash is another man's treasure :)

My only problem with this is that like ideasman said only certain people have write access to the bf-blender cvs. The reason for this being that features added to the bf release code need to be in harmony with what other developers and project manager are doing/planning.

That being said if people generate patches for the cvs, even though they don't have write access, the patch could be reviewed and submitted , after which they could get paid.

p.s. If you haven't seen the CEO (Steve Ballmer) of Microsoft lately, maybe he could insipre those lazy coders: This will either scare or inspire you. :shock: :shock: :shock:

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi » Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:19 pm

ox wrote:Not to be contentious but I don't see a comparison. Blender is open source and free (as in freedom) Giving an incentive for code development is not the same as market manipulation methods. I don't see much difference between the present proposal and supporting blender by purchasing a book or pdf file. On the other hand comrade commisar Gates rules with an iron hand of commercially maipulated marketing techniques to suck the bloodout of the masses. Two completely different worlds and ideals. Same mammon.
Yeah that's true. Well, I suppose it's ok if turns out to working well. There seems to be coders out there wanting to do more if they could get money, and people who would like to pay for features. Whatever improves Blender! I am a bit sceptical of how this would work in practice, but I'll see. I'd still prefer if Blender was a no-profit thing, but if others would like money for coding I suppose it's alright if someone wants to pay them.

Money_YaY!
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Post by Money_YaY! » Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:55 pm

ascotan wrote:
So the richest get the most influence?
Hahahaha. Welcome to the real world.

I think its a good idea, However,
  • 1. This should be organized so ppl feel it's reputable - not just a forum posting.
    2. It probably needs something like paypal so ppl don't have to send $20's in the mail.
    3. Whoever takes the job should be recorded somehow so it's not an issue later.
As for $20 being an insult remember that one man's trash is another man's treasure :)

My only problem with this is that like ideasman said only certain people have write access to the bf-blender cvs. The reason for this being that features added to the bf release code need to be in harmony with what other developers and project manager are doing/planning.

That being said if people generate patches for the cvs, even though they don't have write access, the patch could be reviewed and submitted , after which they could get paid.

p.s. If you haven't seen the CEO (Steve Ballmer) of Microsoft lately, maybe he could insipre those lazy coders: This will either scare or inspire you. :shock: :shock: :shock:

One thing that is true, ! NEVER EVER CAN YOU SEND CASH THROUGH THE MAIL! EVER! . It is illegal.

Paypal, Amazon, iTunes music points, stuff like that that has a proven system.

The code would be no different than what it is now, GPL only Blender as a whole owns the code, no others as it is now just lots of comments with and tags nothing shall change.

Hmm, this needs more work tonight, but my offer still stands for the armature at now 30$$ in iTunes, Amazon wishlist or Paypal.! But that is as high as I can go.

:D

theeth
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Post by theeth » Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:33 pm

Money_YaY! wrote:The code would be no different than what it is now, GPL only Blender as a whole owns the code, no others as it is now just lots of comments with and tags nothing shall change.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the GPL talk there. Care to elaborate?

Martin
Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans.
- John Lennon

Money_YaY!
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Post by Money_YaY! » Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:47 pm

theeth wrote:
Money_YaY! wrote:The code would be no different than what it is now, GPL only Blender as a whole owns the code, no others as it is now just lots of comments with and tags nothing shall change.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the GPL talk there. Care to elaborate?

Martin
GPL, Open source, Whatever the Blender is licensed under, it would stay the same as it is.

theeth
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Post by theeth » Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:18 pm

Money_YaY! wrote:GPL, Open source, Whatever the Blender is licensed under, it would stay the same as it is.
Of course it would. It has to, it's GPL.

Martin
Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans.
- John Lennon

ox
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Post by ox » Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:09 pm

Monkeyboi wrote: Yeah that's true. Well, I suppose it's ok if turns out to working well. There seems to be coders out there wanting to do more if they could get money, and people who would like to pay for features. Whatever improves Blender! I am a bit sceptical of how this would work in practice, but I'll see. I'd still prefer if Blender was a no-profit thing, but if others would like money for coding I suppose it's alright if someone wants to pay them.
Don't get me wrong. I have the same jaded and jaunticed eye toward the almighty $ as you seem to have. My ideals and idealism force me to. I'm glad of it and I am consistant. But, it is all tempered by old age and reality. Benefit for honest labor is not dishonest. Abusing advantage for gain is theft. Be true to your ideals and make the best of the situation. Thanks for the understanding :)

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