State of the Blender Community.

General discussion about the development of the open source Blender

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leinad13
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 5:35 pm

State of the Blender Community.

Post by leinad13 »

At the moment i am becoming increasingly angry with the state of the Blender Foundation and community. Recently we have seen long delays on the manual. Unkept promises for the manual to be available for download once released. Flaming because i merely suggested that we think about planning Blender3 so that with a new code structure it wouldnt take a rocket scientist to try and work out whats going on in that huge messy ball that we call the sourcecode. I propose features to the feature board list and am flamed for suggesting an integrated browser. Non existant development of the Game Engine. And little development since 2.32 was released. A scare of knowledge about the EU grant money. Im sure those who are founding memeber would like to know what it is for. Calls fo moeny to paid to coders for features! I mean OMFG why not just charge for blender. If the coders want to be paid.

Admitidly this is all worth it to have Blender free and developing reletivly quickly at times. But i want to know what other peoples feelings about the Foundation and Community are.
-------------
Over to you boffins

L!13

theeth
Posts: 500
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 5:47 am
Location: Montreal
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Re: State of the Blender Community.

Post by theeth »

leinad13 wrote:Recently we have seen long delays on the manual. Unkept promises for the manual to be available for download once released.
It's not even printed yet, geez, can't you give people some time to breath.
so that with a new code structure it wouldnt take a rocket scientist to try and work out whats going on in that huge messy ball that we call the sourcecode.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist diploma to figure how most of the code works. It just requires you to open the code and follow the calls. Knowledge isn't going to magically be downloaded in your brain just by doing a cvs checkout.
Non existant development of the Game Engine.
Right, than I guess what Kester has been doing these past months is just commiting air to the cvs?
And little development since 2.32 was released.
Ever heard of WIP uncommited dev?
Calls fo moeny to paid to coders for features! I mean OMFG why not just charge for blender. If the coders want to be paid...
May I remind you that this was suggested by someone who (from his own words) doesn't know the smallest thing about coding?

Martin
Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans.
- John Lennon

harkyman
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 2:47 pm
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Contact:

Post by harkyman »

Maybe you get blasted because you seem to rant and rave without knowing what you're talking about.

JoOngle
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Re: State of the Blender Community.

Post by JoOngle »

leinad13 wrote: And little development since 2.32 was released. Foundation and Community are.
Little? Are you kidding me? Blender 2.32 where released a little
more than 2 weeks ago...

And may I remind you that Blender developement are SKY rocketing
blazing-madness-fast compared to eg. 3dstudio max who I paid
a fortune for. Blender is developing with BLAZING speed because
there are a lot of various people working on code/scrips AND plugins.

/JoOngle

Money_YaY!
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 2:47 pm

Post by Money_YaY! »

Ba !, coding is hard. You try and figure out how to make a feature. :D It hurts my head, that is why I will offer prizes and insentive for the smart folks to make a new feature if they can and want to. It is the most that can be done. Besides finding a 'true' challenge for the coder, but that seems to be even harder to do.

IoN_PuLse
Posts: 212
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Location: Canada, BC
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Post by IoN_PuLse »

One word for you....


relax.

Helmuti_pdorf
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 11:38 am
Location: Near Vienna (AUSTRIA, that is in Europe))

Re: State of the Blender Community.

Post by Helmuti_pdorf »

leinad13 wrote:At the moment i am becoming increasingly angry with the state of the Blender Foundation and community.
..
..
Admitidly this is all worth it to have Blender free and developing reletivly quickly at times. But i want to know what other peoples feelings about the Foundation and Community are.
After 35 year in electronic data processing I hear Your wishes, wishes, wishes and You are angry about delays, delays, delays and thiink loud about our communityand the foundation.
it remembers me of my customers...
BUT: they pay for it.
a lot.

I think as Kennedy said:
You are asked what can You do, and not what can the community do for You.

But my tip is ( like IoN_PuLse ):

relax.
regards
Helmuti_pdorf
regards Helmuti_pdorf

UglyMike
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 9:34 am

Post by UglyMike »

I don't get it....
You PRE-ORDER a manual for Blender 2.31, presumably to show support for the Foundation.
A couple of weeks later, Blender explodes with new features! (Internal raytracer, external raytracer, displacement mapping, GUI updates,...)
Now, what is the better situation?
  • 1. get an obsolete 2.31 manual when everybody and their sister is using Blender 2.32
    2. wait 2 months and have a bigger, better, more up to date manual at the same price?
Come on! Who in their right mind would go for option 1?
NOBODY! So why keep yappin' about it? Give it a rest, will ya?
As for the chaotic style of development, if you don't like it, the solution is simple: the code is there. Just download it and implement the stuff exactly the way YOU want it! Or get others to do it for you. It'll be perfect and movie studio's will beat a path to your door! Not quite up to it? Well then STFU or say "Thank you Ton for all the effort you put in this, thanks all you coders for doing all that work in your spare time!".
Neither option is to your liking?
Well, go try Moonlight Atelier.
Or K3D.
Or MagicLight.
Or Equinox3D.
Hell, go try Anim8or! There is bound to be one project to your tastes.
As for me, I go for the "Thank you Ton..." routine everytime!

JoOngle
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Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 4:12 pm
Contact:

Post by JoOngle »

UglyMike wrote:I don't get it....
You PRE-ORDER a manual for Blender 2.31, presumably to show support for the Foundation.
A couple of weeks later, Blender explodes with new features! (Internal raytracer, external raytracer, displacement mapping, GUI updates,...)
Now, what is the better situation?
  • 1. get an obsolete 2.31 manual when everybody and their sister is using Blender 2.32
    2. wait 2 months and have a bigger, better, more up to date manual at the same price?
Come on! Who in their right mind would go for option 1?
NOBODY! So why keep yappin' about it? Give it a rest, will ya?
Well - if you don't "get it" ..then get this:

Blender is a huge program with a LOT of features,
even if there are a LOT of extra features added later on,
you STILL have to learn the previous stuff because it's basic-blender
knowledge...belive me...most people don't know HALF the
stuff Blender is capable of...

..Having a hardcopy manual that explains the short-cuts, texturing-
tutorials in-depth etc...is invaluable to most people serious
about working with 3d.

I absolutely LOVE that they're so quick adding features!
If there's something new - I just read the updates and learn
the new stuff as well, but guess what? I'm STILL learning stuff
that have passed me by earlier ...features that have been
around for ages...but I didnt know about....and chances
are that you don't know everything either.

/JoOngle

JanneVee
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 4:22 pm

Re: State of the Blender Community.

Post by JanneVee »

leinad13 wrote:At the moment i am becoming increasingly angry with the state of the Blender Foundation and community. Recently we have seen long delays on the manual. Unkept promises for the manual to be available for download once released. Flaming because i merely suggested that we think about planning Blender3 so that with a new code structure it wouldnt take a rocket scientist to try and work out whats going on in that huge messy ball that we call the sourcecode. I propose features to the feature board list and am flamed for suggesting an integrated browser. Non existant development of the Game Engine. And little development since 2.32 was released. A scare of knowledge about the EU grant money. Im sure those who are founding memeber would like to know what it is for. Calls fo moeny to paid to coders for features! I mean OMFG why not just charge for blender. If the coders want to be paid.

Admitidly this is all worth it to have Blender free and developing reletivly quickly at times. But i want to know what other peoples feelings about the Foundation and Community are.
My feelings about the community: The community works. It is great to have a free software that works. Not a single crash since I started to use 2.32. Of course the manual is delayed the new features in 2.32 are too important to be left out of the manual. The realtime engine that doesn't work... It would be a nice thing but most artist do not need it at this point. It used propieratary code so it is understandable that it is gone.

/JanneVee

UglyMike
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 9:34 am

Post by UglyMike »

JoOngle,
indulge me...
You are saying that an obsolete manual (covering 2.31) would be just fine as it would after all cover a lot of stuff in Blender which is almost NOT affected by the changes caused by 2.32? An updated manual could then come out, oh, about a year later.

If that is your case (obsolete, 50 Euro manual is just fine), then there STILL shouldn't be an outcry when a bigger, better, more up to date manual is late as another, admittedly obsolete, manual is already available FREE on the blender webside!! That is right! Blenderbook 2.0 can even be downloaded as a PDF file and believe me, it is just as you say: there is tons of stuff in there still relevant! Hell, I still look through my 1.5 manual from time to time (2.0 being to big for the train...)

So, no reason to be pissed about your 50 Euro obsolete manual not being delivered on time. After all, there is one already freely available.

No offense taken, none intended

JoOngle
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Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 4:12 pm
Contact:

Post by JoOngle »

UglyMike - what I'm saying is - Blender gets updated ALL the time,
and it takes nearly forever to get something into print, not to mention
revisions of earlier material...everytime we make a tutorial...it's
already obsolete (somehow) when we're finished with it...
I know because I'm writing one :). I had to change it 2 times
and re-take hundreds of screenshots just to reflect the changes,
but the average users don't really "desperately" need the extra
icons pictured in their book. Eg. the 2.30/2.31. manual still
have a LOT of new stuff in it, and if they started to write
a 2.32 manual now...I'm quite willing to be that 2.33(2.34) would
be out right before the printing (and you'd be complaining again).

Take me as an example....I have paid 4000 dollars for 3dstudio max 4.26
guess what? They now have 3dstudio max version 6.....and It'll cost
me 1600-2000 dollars to UPGRADE to that version.....argh! annoying
(and you're complaining about 50 euro's worth of paper) :)
Oh well, you get my point. (I hope)

/JoOngle

levon
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 6:06 am
Location: adelaide

Post by levon »

well i hear what your saying and what it sounds like to me is ' blah blah blah, bitch bitch bitch, wheres my fuckin' manual, bitch bitch, wheres blender 3, whine whine, where are new fetures!!!!'

sorry only joking :P :P :P

but i think you should be greatful for what you have, had you paid the $3000 for 3ds max i think then you would have the right to complain, but as long as blender is free i think you should surgest rather than expect.

take a chill pill and sit back and relax. :P

JoOngle
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Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 4:12 pm
Contact:

Post by JoOngle »

Levon - please state WHOM you are commenting, your message is seriously confusing...are you talking to UglyMike or to me?
(Suggestion - READ ALL THE MESSAGES to get the connections)

/JoOngle

levon
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 6:06 am
Location: adelaide

Post by levon »

i was talking to leinad13, and yes i did read the whole post, but thanks for the suggestion :D

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