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General discussion about the development of the open source Blender

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MadMesh
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Post by MadMesh »

Apollux wrote:people, will you ever acept it? Blender is not for commercial game development, at least not now.

First is the issue with locking the files, since blender games aren't pre-compiled it is pretty much unlikely to happen.
And why not, i see no technical reason thats stopping people from creating commercial games. The locking restricktion only makes it difficult to develop and sell games for clients but not impossible.
Second, if you are expecting to actually get money from your game then you should also expect to actually INVEST money on a closed source comercial game engine. Then you will have all the compilation and locking you need.
Thats quite a leap, going from one free aplication that can create all the content for the game, and on top of that can be used by both artist and programmers. To buying a commercial game engine and having to hire a programmer (or more) to put it al together. This investment might be justified if you are planning to make the next blockbuster game but there are those who would just like to enhance their web pages with realtime 3D content.
Third, the speed, capabilities and features of Blender are (sadly) nowhere near of those in most comercial game engines in the market today.

So, please get over it. Either you keep doing free-to-all hobby games, or you get serious and buy a lisence for a real big-boy's toy game engine. If you sill whant to use you alredy done .blends then take a look at Torque Game Engine, they even have a Blender importer.

Again, GET OVER IT
That might be true for standalone games but not for on-line games that need a web plug-in. Blenders game engine stands up pretty good against Shockwave 3D and the Axel player. None of those are both free and as easy to use as Blender by the way. This whole nonsense of making big investments and using commercial game engines is just going to scare people away from Blender. You can make fun games with Blender for a low budget easily, thats what makes Blender apealing to artist.

MadMesh

matt_e
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Post by matt_e »

Apollux wrote:people, will you ever acept it? Blender is not for commercial game development, at least not now.
That's not the full picture - there are plenty of commercial applications for the interactive engine apart from games. Besides, way back when I was fiddling with modding etc, the assets from games like Quake 1/2, Half Life were all very accessible anyway - dunno if it's the case now.

Think of all the things that were being pushed on the old blender website when NaN was around - product or engineering visualisation, architectural walkthroughs, and so on. Even if you're just sending things backwards and forwards to and from clients, you don't really want to give them access to all your assets if they haven't paid for that. It's not common in the design/graphics industry (print or publishing, video like commercials or presentations, interactive like flash or director) to give clients the working source files of your projects if they haven't specifically paid for it, but they get it automatically if you want to use the blender realtime engine. So I guess people want to be able to 'level the playing field' and get the same level of control as they do with other programs.

Metallica
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Post by Metallica »

i didn't read all of the post but. a lot of you are being real a**holes. sorry for the language but really. jm this is opensource. take the code and code yourself. or hire some coder to do it for you. your yelling at alien and he has donated so much time into the game engine. :/ i dont understand that. hes the one who made lots possible. :\

kAinStein
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Post by kAinStein »

Metallica wrote:i didn't read all of the post but. a lot of you are being real a**holes. sorry for the language but really. jm this is opensource. take the code and code yourself. or hire some coder to do it for you. your yelling at alien and he has donated so much time into the game engine. :/ i dont understand that. hes the one who made lots possible. :\
The problem is that the code is GPLed. If you change the source then you've got to give the source along (- well, unless you buy a commercial license of the Blender source). So it's quite useless to put any effort in it. The reasons for it have been written a few times in this thread. Even a closed source player would have a weak protection.

To the others:
Seems that here are some people mixing up things. One topic is how you could lock a file with a GPLed player. The other is the copyright thing. Of course Blender is free software. Every derivate of the GPLed Blender will stay free in the terms of the GPL. This does not mean that people have to do the same with their works done with Blender! Of course your work doesn't have to be free, free of charge or whatever! So you can do commercial products with Blender. The point is that you can't lock the files. Even if file locking would get back into Blender, it would "be a matter of seconds" (don't know anymore who wrote it) to unlock it anyway. On the other hand I don't really know why people insist in it. Take a look at most commercial games! You can load, edit, modify game models, game entities and sometimes even the scripting (even though you are not allowed to use them in own games or somewhere else)!
Why all this whining about putting effort in something that doesn't work at all, if there are lots of companies which invested millions in their products? They are more concerned with copies of the whole games. So they protect the copying.
And why the hell should it be less attractive to your clients?! Especially (someone pointed to that) if you're doing architectural walkthroughs and stuff like that...
Sorry, but you really should forget the locking thingy... It does not work!

MadMesh
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Post by MadMesh »

kAinStein wrote:And why the hell should it be less attractive to your clients?! Especially (someone pointed to that) if you're doing architectural walkthroughs and stuff like that...
Sorry, but you really should forget the locking thingy... It does not work!
If you create a game or an architectural walkthrough for a paying client al the content can be taken out and modified. Even the gamelogic can be reused to create new games for a fraction of the cost it took to create te first game. The same applies to al the models and textures.
Shockwave 3D has protection and so does the Axel player to name a few.

qaz99
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Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 11:44 am

optimisation?

Post by qaz99 »

would it be possible to somehow 'compile' a blender executable and thus making it very hard to edit again. maybe it is possible to get some performance increase as well in this way?

matt_e
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Post by matt_e »

kAinStein wrote:The point is that you can't lock the files. Even if file locking would get back into Blender, it would "be a matter of seconds" (don't know anymore who wrote it) to unlock it anyway. On the other hand I don't really know why people insist in it.
The fact that 100% protection is impossible doesn't mean that at least some level of security is not useful. As an example with Flash, there are plenty of SWF decompilers around the net, but it's still not possible to open up SWFs with Flash directly. This is a big enough barrier for most people (especially clients that may not be technically minded enough to know that a decompiler even exists, let along know where to search for one), and provides a reasonable amount of protection that's better than nothing.

Metallica
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Post by Metallica »

ahh thanks for correcting me kAinStein. i see many are saying protection is pointless. and it is. just go any any p2p site and there is a crack/some kind of copy protection broken. its useless to have a serial key or whatever. if you want to be stubborn. buy another game engine like torqe or something or code your own and add protections. its not going to stop people from pirating it or stealing stuff or taking the game apart. anyway all games can be modded and taken apart. look at halo is the one i mod the most. not stopping anyone from extracting the models or bump maps.

jm
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Post by jm »

Ok, for me the issue is that any of blender developers can't work on this thing. Ok I respecting it. It's on you. ....maybe some handy person.. :)

jm

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi »

What would we loose by getting the option to lock our files?

Flash, Director etc locks its executables, why should we not be able to? Because you don't think you're good enough at making games? Excuse me, but that's a very different issue.

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