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Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2002 2:22 pm
by alltaken
this is the most important and influencial thing that could be done by the blender community to make blender become more succesful than it currently is.

there is a program called DEEP EXPLORATION by a company called RIGHT HEMISPHERE.

DEEP EXPLORATION is a graphics format interchanging program as well a a high quality ray-tracing renderer.

If you want blender to become a peice of sftware used in profesional companys then a DEEP EXPLORATION PLUGIN MUST BE MADE.

look at this forum ... forumid=21

they need a BLENDER plugin to be made for them. when the plugin is made this software will provide the interchange of all major formats BOTH IMPORT AND EXPORT.

please programers look at it as this could make blender very atractive to profesionals

thanks for your time

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2002 12:32 pm
by jazzroy
Maybe you haven't noticed the price of Deep Exploration.
If someone wants to spend such amount just to buy a graphics format interchanging program obviously he has also the money to buy a commercial 3D prog with better features than Blender (I love it but I love it as a freeware - I wouldn't change Max for Blender in the company where I work!).
That's just my opinion..

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2002 12:48 pm
by Dani
Oh please!
ANY opening to the professional would be great for blender!
Hey, once blender will be advanced ( :) ) these people could save 5000$ by not buying Max and could spend there money somewhere else.
The community shouldn't be reticent towards opening.
RightHemisphere had already asked for this on the .nl forums, and had got some bad reactions such as "we don't need you".
Of course we need them.
(what about selling the plugin? could benefit to the foundation no?)



Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 4:29 am
by Gomba_3333


Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 263
Post #7

Hi alltaken,

Yes, once we decide to give someone the SDK for Deep Exploration (after they have submitted their credentials and outlined their approach for developing the plugin), then we will give them a copy of Deep Exploration if they don't already have one.

Thanks for spreading the word!

Taken from the Right Hemisphere forums. Anyone with a good idea on how to get a plugin working gets free software ;).[/quote]

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 5:10 am
by dreamerv3
so the fate of blender to become page to a file conversion and rednering program is set....

oh woe....

Blender will be recognized when DCC artists can actually get things done without having to unlearn thier max and maya training to use blender...

A better use of time is to get the code cleaned up and OpenGL 1.3 extesnions working like bump mapping and environment mapping, and a materiels editors to take full atvatage of them, then OpenGL2 for the future.

That would open a lot of minds up...

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 10:58 am
by alltaken
OK when posting this topic i expected to have some bad respones to it.

but please be realistic and logical here.

if blender is to become a profesional tool which i sincerely hope it does, then it must be able to be used in conjunction with profesional tools.

if you actualy look at the popular atitude of the people using blender, you will see that alot of them hate and frown apon EXPENSIVE PROFESIONAL TOOLS. why is this, it is not because they (the PROS) have been mean, nasty, or even rejected BLENDER. It is that the BLENDER community has rejected the PROFESIONAL TOOLS.

now i think that blender can hold up to some of the pro tools. in reality a film studio does not use MAYA or 3DSmax or any other tool, but that they use them all and convert between (this is because every tool is better than another at a certain thing)

e.g they model in 3DS then convert to DEEP UV for texturing then convert again into MAYA for animation (just an example). in the process they have their own in house programers to alter the functionality and make plugins for these programs for their own use.

i do not see why BLENDER cannot be a part of this loop. currently it is not ecause there is no file transfering capability apart from DXF and VRML
(i realise there are some plugins).

the blender community is shuting out the PROS when most of you aspire to become professional.

if this is the public view then i think BLENDER is lost!!! as people who learnt with blender cannot continue to use it in their profesional careers. i may be being selfish here but i wish to continue using blender throughout my PRO career. i would hate to see people leave blender and go to more suported programs when all the funtionality is in blender.


honestly it will never become a contender in the word that way. it will be forever destined to the amature market.

THIS IS NOT WHAT I WANT OR THE COMMUNITY WANTS FOR BLENDER. just because somthing cost money doesn't mean it is evil. how do you earn a living????

there is huge interest in blender out there but there is just not enough reason for people to turn to it.

i really hope to use blender in conjuction with MAYA (which i have to learn if i wish to be a pro) but currently i am afraid i will have to leave blender behind. (i sincerely hope i don't have to do that).

also how many models have you seen on the net that you have wanted to download but cannot because they are in another format.

yes i do know how much it costs (US$249) for students -which alot of people uing blender are- its (US$70 aprox) now most of you spend more than that on video cards so really it is very cheap for a ray-tracer and a file format convertor.

only people who are seriouse about programing one will get it though.

i hope i have changed some very EXCLUSIVE opinions within the blender community. (the blender community EXCLUDING the pros)

good bye, and don't discount it's importance for blender please.


Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 12:29 pm
by jazzroy
Alltaken, your post has a lot of good points.
I don't like too the idea of a closed amateur community, and Blender excites me because wants to get rid of it.
I was just considering it from a company point of view: spending a lot of money in buying maya or max and in training is a must by now if you want a professional production. When you invest you cannot afford to spend time in experimenting a freeware that maybe in the future will be a real alternative.
You say that companies switch from maya to DeepUV to MAX: that's true, but we have to admit that by now Blender doesn't do anything better than pro products. (I hope it will do quickly).
BTW, having a plugin for DeepExploration surely can spread Blender's name, I can understand it as a promotional campaign more than an effective current priority.
We have to work hard on Blender (coders and artists), and when the results will be really competitive we'll attack big expensive products. Everything in the right time, I don't want Blender to be judged by the commercial community too early.
I think so, but I ask for your opinion, maybe I'm wrong!

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 12:55 pm
by alltaken
i definatly agree with this.

i think that this should be on the back burner.

but for me blender is really easy to use and i wish i had a raytracer for it (if nothing else DEEP EXPLORATION is a raytracer)

i have selfish motives for this but also think it would benfit the blender community. i have spent a long time learning blender as it is free. but soon (within the next four years) i will be using maya and 3ds. i belive i have an advatage over my fellow university students becase i have learnt 3d. but really if i am not using blender i have to re-learn all over again. making me on an even with people who have never used a 3d program.

this plugin is not entirely for the pros.
how many people use the lightflow plugin already available for blender.
how many import terragen terrains

i do not want to loose all conections with blender when i have learnt MAYA and 3ds. and i'm sure others are in my position. i know many many people in the blender community that are going to go to university within the next few years to do design type courses.

i would like the file format for BLENDER 3.0 to be interchangeable at least.

and blender is better than some programs at doing things.

MODELING ( i think the interface is very quick for modeling much quicker than others)

and ANIMATION is also rather quick

but it needs backup for

the time it would take to make a plugin is about equal to the time it would have taken to make the Lightflow plugin in pythin (don't get me wrong this is a guess and i am no programer)

blender is my first love.
you never want to give up your first love ( i may be selfish but i feel i am not.)

don't get me wrong i am not demanding this done. just that this is considered, and i wish that the programers working on blender continue their work as i want blender to be the best ever. the blender community is a small part of a greater 3d community which i would like to embrase rather than push away.

any arguments against this idea are welcome because i like to think of all pros and cons but know they must somtimes be pointed out to me.
(i do listen to every view and try think about things logicaly)
:!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 2:42 pm
by LethalSideParting
I think that Alltaken has hit the nail straight on the head, and those of you pretending that Blender doesn't need something like this are deeply mistaken, and it's about time you crawled out from under that rock you've been living under :)

Just look at Openoffice. *NO ONE* took that seriously until it was able to import/export Microsoft .doc formats. Now, if you look on any decent computer news website, you'll find defections to Openoffice and Linux are a daily occurence. Why? Because all of a sudden people were no longer tied to a single program through a single format. Nowadays, if someone wants to change their word processing program it's very easy to do so because if someone sends them a file in .doc format they can edit it in Openoffice, export it to .doc and send it right back.

Now look at Blender. See the similarities? Openoffice hasn't won its audience by going 'our format is superior to everything else in the world so we don't need anything else at all, nyaa nyaa.' They've got their audience by making their product accessible to the highest number of people possible by making it easy for their product to use anything that's thrown at it.

And that's exactly what this 3D Exploration is all about. It's about being able to convert scenes from anything, to anything. And anyone who thinks that the Blender community shouldn't at least consider this offer is seriously mistaken.

LethalSideParting </RANT>

why should opensource developers make a plugin

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 6:22 pm
by smoke
for a commercial app? i mean i understand when its a widespread format like word. but i dont get the point why open-source-developers should focus on hacking a plugin for a closed-source software, that does nothing but interchange 3d-formats, render etc.
i mean not to be rude but if they sell their product for 5000$ bucks - then maybe they should bussy their own programmers - i mean that the product does claim to be able to interchange different 3d formats, so why should somebody else, who will never get any money from them, write a output-plugin for blender - just for the sake that they dont have to write a blender input plugin?

you confuse me deeply. you know...

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 8:21 pm
by MrMunkily
Look - Blender already can export many formats (All kinds of meshes anyway)

There are export scripts compatible with ALL the major programs already. For example:

.obj - quite the universal file with UV coordinates and all.
.lwo - lightwave
.3ds - duh
.vrml - terrible format...
.dxf - also not so good

YES - It dosen't export directly to max, maya, or xsi, but you can get the meshes in and out without much difficulty. To tell the truth, there's nothing stopping an import of any of these file types into those programs by blender. Similarly, you can go the other way as well. Big name programs have file export functions too.

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:07 am
by dittohead
it would be great if we could have that, but blender's file format is more complecated than most.

read this: ... hp?p=12#12

in the file is more data like the way th ui was when you saved and when it saves way to much to have a plugin open it. we need and export side to blender instead.

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:42 am
by alltaken
yep ok i understand the point of view.

i do agree we should have import-export settings in blender.

to suport more formats we would have to make a plugin for import/export for each of the formats we wanted to support.

in this case we would need only make one plugin for access to all suported formats that deep exploration has.

it also has a raytracing feature.
for a commercial app? i mean i understand when its a widespread format like word. but i dont get the point why open-source-developers should focus on hacking a plugin for a closed-source software, that does nothing but interchange 3d-formats, render etc.
i mean not to be rude but if they sell their product for 5000$ bucks - then maybe they should bussy their own programmers - i mean that the product does claim to be able to interchange different 3d formats, so why should somebody else, who will never get any money from them, write a output-plugin for blender - just for the sake that they dont have to write a blender input plugin?

you confuse me deeply. you know...
ok did you read the previous posts. for one it COSTS $249USD and about costs $70USD for the academic discount.

the person or people that make it GET A FREE COPY.

and to ask the oposite question to why would we make a plugin for a closed-source program.
why would they make a plugin for an opensource program if everyone using it is likely not to buy their program.

it is in their interest to make plugins for programs that rich companys use. which they do. but why spend money making a plugin for people who wont earn them heaps of money (like blender users)

i really don't see why everything associated with blender must be free or opensource. (not everything is free in life mate!!!)

i would buy the product for $300 US if it had a blender plugin. i have used the free demo version and it is the best program i have seen. in my opinion it is also CHEAP.

people payed for the free blender fund so i don't see why they wouldn't pay for a program that suported blender. it adds to the functionality wether it costs money or not. :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:08 am
by dittohead
blender's file format is FAR too comlex to bring into another app. period.

it stores more than just the mesh, the uv coords and the anims, like you seem to think.

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2002 5:39 am
by alltaken
are you saying that other file formats like MAYA only contain these things.

i think you may find that blender has an equal file format to most profesional programs.

most of them actualy hold more info than blender.

it may be complex compared to DXF but i don't want to convert to DXF.

i know nothing of the workings of the file format.

any conversion has some loss of infomation. avi-mpeg-avi-mpeg-avi will degrade the video image it is the same in anything so saying IT IS TO COMPLEX is bull. it may not be a perfect conversion nut if it is 99% that is good enough.

i find it very hard to belive that .BLEND is superior to another format