News of Spanish Blender community

General discussion about the development of the open source Blender

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Alvaro
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:45 pm

News of Spanish Blender community

Post by Alvaro »

Hi. Spanish community has problems.

The administrator of Nicodigital have finally decided to charge a fee for using Nicodigital services. I think everybody should help to keep this comunity alive, but in fact some others dark things are involved.

Althoug Nicodigital says of itself "The site of Spanish Comunity of Blender users" (big letters on the welcome page), nobody except Nicodigital Administrator can decide about how this comunity should be and its future.

Nicodigital board, in fact two o three people, refuses any advice or comments about the situation. Advices or comments in forums usually end in flame war between users and moderators. Spanish community has not any democratic mechanism, there is not debate, there is not any way everybody can decide (all together) where we want to go. (sure we don't want an only person paying all our spanish comunity bills, Nico)

Fee means that people from many countries of South America can't pay, newcomers and just curious people can't PARTICIPATE in a normal forum like people who speak english can do here or in Elysiun. I can pay, but we leave lot of people bitening the dust.

What is more, people with the most high level, the most veterans and so on, have been exonerated to pay. Result: people with the most high level, respected for everybody, say nothing about. A sort of praetorians guard.

New registrations are not allowed.

Some alternative forum has started, but nothing that really deserves the Spanish Blender Community, with people from countries around the world.

I really want to pay the fee, but in the present situation I really don't feel Nicodigital as the site of the Spanish Blender Community and I really think that if I pay, people who can not pay (or should'nt have to pay) deserve the same as me.

birras
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:22 pm

Post by birras »

It is a shame really, because the quite lively Spanish community will eventually be split apart......it´ll happen! Sooner or later....
What good is it for noobs, when they cannot post Qs, unless they pay a ~Euro50,- p.a. fee?

There was a thread about a year ago, where a discussion concerning the server fee, etc. was going on.
The best thing I read then, was the idea to collect enough money to cover the fees and maybe a little more for whatever else. This sounded all right for me, as it would be on a volunteer-basis, continuing the blender foundation spirit, when $100,000.- where needed in order to keep Blender alive and kicking.

I´m sure that a lot of people would have given some dough for that cause, even some Latin-Americans could have taken part in that kind of thing, as no minimum amount would have made it impossible to pay.(they could have collected their money at one point, lets say Malefico, and he could have made the transfer. But in this live there is no could have and would have been better.

Most Latinos are unable to pay, as a simple matter of fact!

The situation is this: one guy (who´s doing a hell of a job! It is a nice web-site!) decided he wants to make a bit of money. He´s in his right to do so. It was his idea to set up the site, it is his creation and it is called nicodigital and his name is nico.

It is a one mans job and he probably invested a great amount of time in the whole thing. (Especially in writing TICKETS...man I drive a car in a big busy spanish city, and every time I get a parking ticket I get the rabies. I hate them!!! Now I am writing posts now and then at www.blendpolis.org, which is the German community, at some linux-forums,CG-Talk, Elysiun and a couple of others more sporadic.
I never ever received a warning or whatever else of that kind. I never read the rules. There are some does and don´ts within the ethics of people, even so we are spread all over the planet. Apart from some hefty discussion and disagreeing I never have seen the need that a moderator had to intervene.(Apart from moving a new thread from one topic related forum to the other) But it seems that it is a kind of a spare time activity to handle out TICKETS!!! at a forum!!!! :shock:

Conclusion for me: I really appreciate the work of the community and the moderator, but I´m not willing to pay someone to hand out tickets....
I might step on someone´s feet with saying this, but heck, I have alternatives on non-fee-payment-required-in-order-to-be-able-to-post-sites, and I will still be able to read the threads, without making the payment. I would have paid! No problem! But??..

As I said, it´s not about the money; it´s about the way it was imposed on the community, as Alvaro stated.

It is a shame that this will create a two class´s society: the ones which are able to pay and the ones who can not. Poor guys are not allowed to post anymore! They´ll look for other shores to anchor and the once thriving Spanish community will loose, not all at once, but on the long run.

As soon as there is an alternative forum, where people, who use open-source software can discuss and post as they like in an open source environment, the community will break apart. Just a sad thing, seeing it happening.

Lord_ZealoN
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 10:20 pm

Post by Lord_ZealoN »

I you don't like it. Then, make your own portal and shut up

What is the problem? I forgot, you must dedicate it your time.

Then, how I have already said, make your own portal in tripod, or sourceforge and make a spanish community that "runs" at same velocity, without banners or popus with all the content.

you only know to cry because you must spend 50$ to the year, and if you help the community your "bill" is minor.

How I have said in a nicodigital thread, how do you spend in games for PC (well, emule or edonkey, sure), or tobbaco, or drinks. if you only let take 5 coffees to the month, you have paid the entrance, but it is easier to free have it everything and that the others pay by you.

A mamarla.

Alvaro
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:45 pm

Post by Alvaro »

A mamarla
You have got a great point there, Lord!

but...
Can I ask you if you are Founding Member, how many Blender books have you bought?
Can I ask you how much money have you donated for Nicodigital, or how many tutorials have you written or translated?
Can I ask you when was the last time you wrote a **** two lines script?
I new to know mainly to understand why express yourseft in so great words

Last question:
Do you know what we are paying for? a comercial web or just to maintain a comunity...
I'm am freelance, sure if I pay for a comercial web I would want an official bill to deduct in my V.A.T (as usual in Spain)
Are we paying for a non-profit Web? I should comment you that possibly in this case I would need a certificate of payments to deduct in my personal income tax (as usual in Spain)
What the hell are we paying for?
Last edited by Alvaro on Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Lord_ZealoN
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 10:20 pm

Post by Lord_ZealoN »

You have got a great point there, Lord!
I request excuses, was a wrath attack
Can I ask you if you are Founding Member, how many Blender books have you bought?
o_O I'm not a founding member, only an user.
Can I ask you how much money have you donated for Nicodigital, or how many tutorials have you written or translated?
0
Can I ask you when was the last time you wrote a **** two lines script?
Never


I'm in the same position. I may pay, but i don't cry beacuse it must thus be

If you wish it we can continue debating in Spanish because my english is not too good, and I am in clear disadvantage ;)

Mars_Attacks
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 2:01 pm

Post by Mars_Attacks »

Alvaro wrote: What the hell are we paying for?
For helping Nico keeping up the fastest, better-programmed, complex and complete Spanish web-forum about Blender.

As Lord said before, if you think you can do it better, just do it. Moreover, 3DPoder is a good place for those Blenderites who will be wanting for a free place to post their doubts and works. Nicodigital will remain their forums open to read and all the tutorials on line. All the knowdledge of the users will be readable for everybody without pay anything.

What the hell are you crying for?

Mars Attacks.

birras
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:22 pm

Post by birras »

Well, this is a very good example of the way the discussion is going on. Simply there was no discussion when it was imposed.

What are we paying for?

For helping Caronte keeping up the fastest, better-programmed, complex and complete Spanish web-forum about Blender.

O.K. I admit that it is the coolest site for blender on earth, as for design and functionality. But is all that stuff necessay?

About a year ago, there was once a discussion about the cost of that high-speed server, and I recall that there where some suggestions made by Malefico to change the server for a much lower fee or even a free server. All those ideas where rejected for technical reasons, in order to keep all the blinking and whatever else. If I remember correctly, there was no poll about it, nor a real discussion, just a hint of what was going to come: financial aid for the site, so it could be continued as is. Full stop.

I remember that I posted, that instead of financially supporting the site, cheaper or free alternatives could be used and if there is one place that deserves financial support, it is undoubtedly the Blender Foundation.

We can live without the blink-blink and god knows what. There are cheaper even free server alternatives! So why pay for something unnecessary?

Sad thing is just, that this is creating certain hatred, as the way people now discuss over the matter clearly shows.

What a petty.

All that, because cheaper or free alternatives where rejected, a community of users of a free as in freedom software are being forced against their will into a commercial environment. It is not about paying a bit for the community, it is paying for unnecessary stuff!!!

We shouldn´t have to. We shouldn´t have to listen to things like: "take it or leave it. If you know better, do it." Great! Thanks So much for a creative discussion.

We should have looked for cheaper alternatives when the discussion first came up and it was obvious, that the elevated expenses for the existing system would create a financial burden.

Not everybody can afford to pay! I don´t see a reason why I should pay, as there are alternatives.

Now the situation is clear: take it or leave it.

I repeat: it´s a sad thing to see a community divided because of the stubborn decisions made by the webmaster. Cheaper alternatives exist! It could be a free for all site! For all! Each and everyone!

Blender-Foundation
Goal 3
Make Blender a better product, and promote free access to 3D technology in general

Result: a couple of guys already have formed out of desperation another forum at:

www.bellera.org/blenderfor

It´s not as nice, it´s not a hypermodern site, it is in the making, just a plain vanilla php-nuke,
but so is
www.blender.org
www.blendpolis.org (German community)
www.blender.it (Italian community)
etc.etc. I do check out the community sites worldwide now and then to check out the galleries. And from Brazil to Russia- no pay sites. free forums for users of a free soft
aqsis.sourceforge.org
www.yafray.org
etc,etc. the list could go on forever
It is content that counts! Not to be the fastest and best looking site.
It is not necessary to have all the blink, blink. And it is definitely not legal, claiming to be the site for all the hispano-blenderusers comunity and converting it into a pay-site! And then saying: if you don?t like it, go somewhere else. Nicodigital belongs to the community, because they have made it what it is today.

Do I financially support the community? Which community? A community without the right for opinion, a community forced into a situation against their will, a community without any right whatsoever to make or discuss nor vote on vital decisions. Or a site where decisions are made for the users of the website by just the webmaster.

A webmaster who did a lot for the community and each and everyone has to be gratefull for all the work he has done. Thats for sure!
I learned a lot because of the existens of his site.
But he also insisted in carrying on the same way, knowing it would be a financial burden sooner or later, rejecting all alternatives.


It s also a sad thing to read things like:
As Lord said before, if you think you can do it better, just do it.

In other words: get lost, take it or leave it.

The discussion is imposible on that level and even ends up in insults sometimes!
Sad thing seeing this happening!

All this is not against the site! The oposite is the fact. I really like the site and would like to see a unided community, looking for a solution for those latin americans which are unable to pay, but would love to paticipate actively.

oin
Posts: 0
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 6:34 pm

Post by oin »

Haven't been for long time there, went away without a single complain. I am very glad a new comunity has started apart from Nicodigital and I'd love it happened. Best luck to all of you.

I'll surely will sign in.Have no real probs with english, but I think about the ones that do have them, and till now had not much more options to choose.... :)

Hope no strict rules or paying stuff (virtual money or real one) there ;)

(I have been and am a contributor of tuts and buying coding books to authors in several 3d non blender related comunities...allways volunteering for that. Helped always mountains, and am apreciated for that , and proud of it. Just I will say I think the birth of a new comunity is great. )
A mamarla
:shock: :roll:

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