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Starting an NPR Wikki?

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:13 pm
by flippyneck
Following on from the recent discussions on a node-based shader system and subsequent wikki, I wondered if anyone was interested in contributing to one that would gather collective thoughts on options for improving Blender's NPR rendering capabilities?

I have nearly completed a review of Blender's current NPR options, available commercial and OS NPR renderers and ideas for things to be integrated into Blender. I'll post it later this evening.

Once the article is up and if folks are interested enough I'll see about getting a wikki started on the projects section...

I'm no guru coder but I am very interested in this and have done a fair amount of reading so I'd be happy to do the original setting up for others to add their thoughts.

cheers, please let me know what you think.

Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:10 am
by flippyneck
ok, here's the article, please let me hear your thoughts.

It's quite image intensive; sorry to you 56k folks.

Name will have to change

Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:33 am
by bfvietnam

I had never heard of the term NPR used to refer to this stuff..
I revoked my message..

Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:43 am
by oyster
First working SWF Exporter (V1.2)
(yes, it is NPR) ... king+flash

working SWF export ! ... king+flash

NPR papers and thoughts ... highlight=

WYSIWYG NPR: Drawing Strokes Directly on 3D Models.
software and blender script come with this one ... highlight=

I have thought of an export script for Inkulator, but donno know the parameters in Inkulator very well :(
Does anyone can help?

Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:24 pm
by SamAdam
i love that all things considered show!

anyhoo, I would like to voice my support for any integration of a draft npr. something that would give nice smooth shading, outlines, and maybe depth or object based opacity.


Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:31 pm
by ilac
oyster wrote: I have thought of an export script for Inkulator, but donno know the parameters in Inkulator very well :(
Does anyone can help?
I had contacted the Author of Inkulator and suggested the integration of Inkulator as a renderer in Blender and he replied that he was interested but I never heard anything since. I guess you could contact him for help. his email is at the top of the Inkulator homepage.

I'm quoting my original suggestions in the email to dhenton if it's of any help to you. I think it should help you understand the parameters:

I really like the style of your renderer. My main feedback would be to replace the numerical entries for sliders (or in conjunction with) especially in the ink levels settings!

Don't know if this will interest you but would you consider integrating this in the opensource 3D software, Blender?
Blender would provide an excellent front-end for your renderer. That way, mesh animation and camera animation will be handled by Blender (Inking angle could also be controlled via the placing of a control object (an Empty), so that can be animated too. Blender passes mesh data, camera loc, 'Ink angle' locater data to Inkulator9000, and Inkulator handles rendering output.

Blender already handles external renderers. You select from a renderer drop down and a panel with renderer specific data appears (ink settings in Inkulators case)

I also forwarded similar suggestions to Ted Schundler, who was to head some Blender NPR project but i never heard back from him or anything about the project - but he might be also be a good contact for you.


Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 4:42 am
by oyster
I have contacted the author of Inkulator before and made some discussion on the Inkulator's forum. But still in confussion. I donno think integration of Inkulator would happen in a short time, since Blender does not have a common render engine interface (well, well, I have said "a common render engine interface" on elysiun and here so many times without response), the feasible approach is to write python scripts to export mesh to obj file( yes, there have already been one, we only need some modification) and save the camera info the feed inkulator.

There is a bug in Inkulator command renderer, it cannot render to bmp, the author said it will be fixed in November.

Another question is how to scale the mesh in obj file. Author uses some empiristic scale factor for POSER. Donno whether there is one for Blender or not.

Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 4:48 am
by oyster
I think most of the flash works are NPR, eaguirre calls for Blender animation authors for testing the new flash export script.
details go here:

Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:05 pm
by ilac
Inkulator has just been updated and re-named to INK9000

Here's the info update from Mr Henton's maillist:
version 1.5 10/22/04

renamed to INK9000
Added mouse support
fixed esc key problem on dialogs
added texture support
fixed lighting problem in preview mode
updated documentation (added manual.pdf)
added SVG vector output
added grey tone for default white

3d Mesh to graphic-novel image software
Scripts have proven to have very tight integration for rendering so I don't think it's an issue if it's integration or via python. The advantage of integration is no need to install it separatly and once its GUI code (and any other info) that could be taken directly from Blender are removed from its code base it would have a really small footprint and not affect Blender's size noticeably (I would expect - I'm not the coder here! :cry: )

ps. Hope the BMP issue has been solved with this release!

Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:20 pm
by zygom
hi people

i think the first thing to do is remake the edge tool in blender i think is too poor

color ramp ,toon material is good but not the edge tool
and i think layered materials (not layered textures) is very important for better graphical material (like in maya)


Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:24 pm
by zygom
and i think it will be fantastic if blender c ould use gbr gimp brush to trace the edge of the edge tool

Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:46 pm
by oyster
The GUI version of inkulater always render a TGA file. I am talking the command line version for animations, ie inkcmd.exe in v0.8, inkcmd.exe only exports AI file.

A integrated render gives visualization when we adjust parameters, a "script out for console program" method does not. Blender python script seems to be able to show picture, but it is tedious and a waste of time to load rendered picture as fake visualization. And what if we only wanna a vector export? We have to render both raster and vector file and load the raster for the fake visualization. If you are familiar with 3dsmax, maya etc, you probably know what is a "common render engine interface" well. :)

Since inkcmd.exe is not released in ink9000, we can not get blender work with ink9000.

"a common render engine interface" in Blender and inkcmd.exe :twisted:

Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 3:57 pm
by dhenton9000
I just finished releasing Ink9000 v1.5, and my next step is Blender integration.

Eventually, I would like to explore the edge thing that is mentioned in this discussion, because Ink9000 could really use access to edge information for some effects I'd like to explore, eg edge blending. That would mean more than command line integration. For Ink9000 to really soar, it needs access to data structures beyound whats in a OBJ mesh, such as edges, or NURBS curves. Blender would be ideal for that. And lets not forget full rigging and animation!!

However, the command line version that I have could be easily rewritten to support the new camera and textures, and I would LOVE to contribute to Blender. So a console program or python thing is a real possibility

Is the "Coding blender" forum a good place to start???


Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 8:40 pm
by Bellorum
It's great to hear your enthusiasm about wanting to contribute to Blender :) Inkulator is a very promising program, btw, and I sincerely hope that you'll be able to integrate it into Blender. If things seem a little slow around here, it's probably because so many of the coders are at the Blender conference, and not because no one's interested :roll: Welcome to the community :D

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:18 am
by oyster
It is a great news.
You may find the link to every documents on Blender on the left of this page. The companying scripts in Blender release may be helpful, I think so.
And I think is a better site for discussion because of population. ;)
See you.