Blender Nude and Erotic Art

General discussion about the development of the open source Blender

Moderators: jesterKing, stiv

JWalton
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Post by JWalton » Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:35 am

my opinion:
the SVG and Hybrid sections are much better than the blender section; they show good composition, color balance (coming from me that a toss up) and balanced use of perspective and context. the characters are well proportioned and have a sense of individuality, purpose, and identity. hydrid is my favoirite.

the blender section looks like nextgen everquest manikins (sp?) in steril unemotional, uninspired 3d nowheres. clearly this is not blender well positioned for this subject matter.

thanks for sharing philovivero
John


edit: btw: i think joeri has a point. Ton you're just coping out.

forcefield
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Post by forcefield » Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:28 am

When this site came back up I thought it was the development site. Related only to the development of blender.

Elysiun was the community site. For true chats like this one.

I have two things to say, then I hope this thread dies:

1) Art can not be bound by rules of nudity vs p0rN. A nude woman is not porn, nor is it necessarily art. Insisting CGI nude females are child porn is sad, to me they look like possibly asian women.

2) It's nice work but does not contribute to the development of Blender, I feel the whole thread should be deleted. Take it back up at Elysiun -- but not here.

Last thing (Because I re-activated this account just to post this:)

Ton, and the rest of the team. Great work. My hat is off to each and every one of you. Thank you for the best program/community EVER!

Zarf
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Post by Zarf » Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:40 pm

joeedh wrote:[edit ok this is a reply for several posts upward]

Guess what. . .Ok, let me explain the difference between obsession and addiction.

1) Obsession is when you really, really like something.

2) Addiction is when you need something, and when that need grows and grows and grows, until finally it reaches the point where you cannot satisfy it. The closer you get to that point the more mental damage is done; as you come to rely on whatever you are addicted to it you realize that you are a slave to it. I've known people who on several accasions tried to quit smoking and failed; do you thing that knowing that you are a slave of something has no effect on you?

When pornography's effects begins to fade, how would you satisfy your addiction? Quit? Or would you begin to look at everyone and everything looking for potential oppurtinities to satisfy your need for those feelings? That is, after all, why people quit porno: when they realize that their need for sex is utterly bottomless, they realize that they have to get out while they can. Where do you think child molesters come from? Most people do not end up like that, of course, but I'd bet that many child molesters started out by looking at some porno, and never stopped.

joeedh
And with that outrageous statenment about pedophiles, I am going to bow out of this debate because it is evident that I would just be talking to hear the sound of my own voice and thats something I am trying to break myself of.

Joeedh, it is dissapointing that you seem only interested in a monologue. Instead of directly adressing what people are saying and defending your bold statements with facts it seems you would rather just continue making increasingly outrageous claims. I would recommend that you read a good book on critical thinking.

It is a shame because this thread could have become a usefull discussion about not just decency in art, but about the relation of digital media production techniques to the 'art-world' proper.

Zarf

joeri
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Post by joeri » Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:31 pm

It is a shame because this thread could have become a usefull discussion about not just decency in art, but about the relation of digital media production techniques to the 'art-world' proper.
Yes, well, there are more people in this thread.
But still, I would not expect to much of that on a developers forum.

JWalton
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Post by JWalton » Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:49 pm

joeri wrote:
It is a shame because this thread could have become a usefull discussion about not just decency in art, but about the relation of digital media production techniques to the 'art-world' proper.
Yes, well, there are more people in this thread.
But still, I would not expect to much of that on a developers forum.
i don't find the images erotic, lewd or indecent. apperently some people never took an art course, went to museum, or knows about the common practice of painting nude subjects.

additionally, i think it's a fine example for a developers forum that shows an inadaquacy in blender's ability to perform in this genre of art. and should be discussed at least no different than a couple of balls in a room with a light in the ceiling.

shish
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Post by shish » Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:12 pm

Rather than discussing the border between art and porn, I figured I'd suggest something useful - a way in which things like this are (quite successfully) dealt with in other places:

Don't ban anything; give the reader information and let them make their own decisions

Hence, things that are OK:
A link to a site with an explicit warning about potentially offensive things

And things that aren't OK:
Links to offensive stuff without warning
Posting offensive stuff directly into the forums


If the reader is looking for porn, banning it here won't stop them * - If the reader isn't looking for porn, then a warning saying "WARNING: this is porn!" is quite enough to stop them accidentally viewing it.

* And since nobody comes here for the porn, allowing it doesn't help people to find it either

(And yes, this should be applied to the community forum rather than the development one, but the thread is here so that's where I commented on it. Also, it tends to be a good policy in all forums regardless of topic)

joeri
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Post by joeri » Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:45 pm

But it's also not uncommon to move topics to the right forum, if posted in the wrong one.
So what happens if a topic is does not fit to any of the forums?
If it's a delete because it's sensorship, then I wouln't agree with it.
But if there would be a 'trashcan' forum, and off-forum topics would be moved to there, wouldn't that forum need a clean once in a while?

okchoir
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Post by okchoir » Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:59 pm

I looked at the website: there is adequate warning up front.

It seems that most of the controversy here is whether to allow posting links to such a site. I decline to enter this debate, except to say that I am responsible for what I do with the information posted here. And in this case, I welcome the chance to explore how a scene is done in Blender, that is, to see the .blend files and some explanation.

ideasman
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Post by ideasman » Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:59 am

It bothers me a little that the girls look about 12 (no fuzz) but other then that-
Well hay why not- Its only a matter of time before realtime porn becomes an industry and I dont see why blender should not be a part of that :/

philovivero
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I'm Doing Everyone A Favour And Not Participating Here

Post by philovivero » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:57 pm

Ton says this is not the proper forum for this type of discussion, which is true, but isn't why I originally posted. I am purposefully trying to promote DEVELOPMENT and IMPROVEMENT of human models (I'm far more interested in female than male, but whatever), and I think depicting nudity is a very good way to go about it. Note that I actually provide my full .blend for download. I'm not here to stir up s--t -- I'm here to help people.

Ultimately, I would like to contribute to MakeHuman in some way, but I'm not yet sure how to go about it. Their website seems fairly inactive, and doesn't have much in the way of suggesting how to go about submitting new models (I assume there needs to be a particular mesh vertex count and edge loop definition).

Also, someone said Elysiun is a good place to have the sort of discussion this turned into, so I will take myself over there since it appears inevitable that all my contributions will spark this sort of outburst from the holier-than-thou sorts.

I have a whole lot to say about morality of nudity, eroticism, art, age of consent, European vs. American attitudes toward all these, etc, but I will respect the forum owners and not talk about any of it here. I'll start a thread on Elysiun (Announcements) and if the discussion devolves like it's done here, I suppose the moderators will move it into "off-topic chat."

Cheers, y'all. See you on Elysiun.
--
philovivero

JWalton
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Re: I'm Doing Everyone A Favour And Not Participating Here

Post by JWalton » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:55 am

philovivero wrote: I am purposefully trying to promote DEVELOPMENT and IMPROVEMENT of human models (I'm far more interested in female than male, but whatever), and I think depicting nudity is a very good way to go about it.
i agreed with this point. sorry to see it dissapear into elysiun.

joeri
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Post by joeri » Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:23 pm

No need to flee to elysiun.
Just start modeling cows. You will need the same skills, it will improve blender development in the same way and it wouldn't offend people.

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