Finally, skin with realistic subsurface scattering

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Manuel
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Finally, skin with realistic subsurface scattering

Post by Manuel » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:53 am

In the image below, no textures, no procedural, only sss
using MHsss script:

Image

to see how it work, and other images, take a look to my last post in this topic:

http://www.dedalo-3d.com/public/forum/i ... 1837542.23

The version beta3 of script will be available soon.

Ciao!

Manuel
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Post by Manuel » Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:12 pm


adrian
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Post by adrian » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:59 pm

Very very good,
I have only tested the above very quickly, but the results were well cool.

mjordan
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Post by mjordan » Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:30 pm

Hello, this script is nice. For too many time I was waiting for SSS into Blender.
But I know Ray Wells is working on a SSS implementation for Blender. So my question is: is this work duplicated with Ray's work?
Regards,
Renato Perini
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You can't live with women, you can't live without women.
Fuzzy logic example.

Toon_Scheur
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Post by Toon_Scheur » Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:12 pm

If I'm not mistaken, Ray Wells is programming his implementation according to the paper of Henrik Jensen/ Juan Buhler : A rapid hierarchical rendering technique for transclucent materials.

Manuels method doesn't use the diffuse approximation formulas and such. It is a simplified method that yields very nice results.

bfvietnam
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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:54 pm

He's using vertex coloring..

Post by bfvietnam » Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:39 pm

What do you expect? Its not a render engine level effect..
But it would be suitable for animation like those "living plastic"
creatures in the recent episode of Dr. Who (2005).

levon
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Post by levon » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:09 am

mjordan wrote:Hello, this script is nice. For too many time I was waiting for SSS into Blender.
But I know Ray Wells is working on a SSS implementation for Blender. So my question is: is this work duplicated with Ray's work?
no offence to ray (hes a good friend) but he probably wont have SSS into blender till late this year, as he is working on GI and distributive raytracing(blury reflections) and he has school to focus on. and this script is here and working now.

olivs
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Post by olivs » Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:31 am

here's the latest attempt made by Manuel... I thought it worthy to be posted right now:

Image

your comments in the MH forum more that welcome. Here's the thread:

http://www.dedalo-3d.com/public/forum/i ... 3183592.62

Cheers,

olivs
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Post by olivs » Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:20 pm

Hello,

a tutorial about the usage of the Superficial scattering script (MHssss) is available here:
using the Superficial Scattering script
Image

Comments are welcome

Enjoy!

harkyman
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Post by harkyman » Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:42 pm

Just tried this out. It's great. What I learned was that if I applied material settings and painted textures as I expected them to be, then rendered, it looked like crap with the ssss. Which is exactly how it ought to be. I'm pretty good at eyeballing material settings to match their real-world counterparts. Of course, it's a different story with skin, and you have to do all kinds of silly lighting tricks.

The first image below is my makehuman head with textures (color, bump, spec and transluceny), but no ssss. Three point lighting and AO using sky color.

The second image is the same thing after running the MHssss script, with a scattering of around .5 and a power of about the same. Straight out of the tutorial. Also, I found that I needed to keep to trans color very dark, or else it looked weird. Notice the subtlety in the shading on the left cheek and in the shadow transition areas. (Ignore the lips - I just can't do lips).

The completely awesome thing about this is that I just did a normal lighting setup, and painted my texture as I normally would, and the SSSS script made it look just right. Bingo guys, I'd say you have a winner.

First 3 lights, AO, no SSSS:
Image

Same thing, but adding the SSSS:
Image

basse
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Post by basse » Mon May 02, 2005 8:42 am

ok. this might sound pompous, of ignorant.. or.. something, but I just have to ask, as I've been watching these examples for some time now, and all the people seem raving about it.

what does this script do, that one extra fill light lamp wouldn't?

I mean, in harkymans example here, it brought some more light into it, and illuminated the back for the character a bit. i can't really see other differences.
then there is this babyhead example a little bit above. I'm sorry to say, but that looks just scary. and quite far from realistic. (thank goodness)
and the first example in this thread.. ok, that is a great looking model, but again, I don't see how that is realistic.. instead of skin, it looks plastic. you know, that sort of rubbery plastic those masks are made of.

maybe I'm looking them wrong... but. just wanted to know what this is all about. :)

.b

Bellorum
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Post by Bellorum » Mon May 02, 2005 9:24 am

basse wrote:ok. this might sound pompous, of ignorant.. or.. something, but I just have to ask, as I've been watching these examples for some time now, and all the people seem raving about it.

what does this script do, that one extra fill light lamp wouldn't?

I mean, in harkymans example here, it brought some more light into it, and illuminated the back for the character a bit. i can't really see other differences.
then there is this babyhead example a little bit above. I'm sorry to say, but that looks just scary. and quite far from realistic. (thank goodness)
and the first example in this thread.. ok, that is a great looking model, but again, I don't see how that is realistic.. instead of skin, it looks plastic. you know, that sort of rubbery plastic those masks are made of.

maybe I'm looking them wrong... but. just wanted to know what this is all about. :)

.b
Hrm..yeah, I've been wondering that myself. Not to take anything away from the person writing the script, I just don't understand what I'm supposed to see :cry:
There's no such thing as democracy. There's only the tyranny of one, and the tyranny of many.

UglyMike
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Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 9:34 am

Post by UglyMike » Mon May 02, 2005 11:18 am

Waw....
I'm happy someone is voicing what I was always afraid to say...
Now, I can understand the interest and effect of SSS on stuff like Jade or milk or membrane-like tissue (foetusses and such). I do however have some problem understanding the effectof SSS on a full, mature human (except for ears for instance...)....
Now, I do very much prefer Harkyman's second picture but it seems (to me!!) that this is just because of better lighting.
The first picture in the thread seems pretty standard to me. I like the scary baby head's texturing very much but as I don't 'get' SSS, I cannot judge its impact on the picture.
I guess the main issue is my lack of understanding of translucency versus SSS (a kind of bounced translucency?)
Ah well, I'll just go on trusting the wonderfull MakeHuman coders. Anything that improves the plastic feeling of computer generated human skin has my vote.
There. Expressing my ignorance has made me feel better!

joeri
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Post by joeri » Mon May 02, 2005 1:12 pm

Not that I know alot about this stuff but adding a light would influence everything unless you start grouping and assigning. Telling a material to react different on available light makes it easier to assign what surface should lit up differently from other surfaces.
This is ofcourse not very obvious when there is only one object in your scene. (But on harkyman's image for example you can see it in the eyes, they stay the same).

Zarf
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Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 3:54 am

Post by Zarf » Mon May 02, 2005 2:55 pm

basse wrote:ok. this might sound pompous, of ignorant.. or.. something, but I just have to ask, as I've been watching these examples for some time now, and all the people seem raving about it.

what does this script do, that one extra fill light lamp wouldn't?

I mean, in harkymans example here, it brought some more light into it, and illuminated the back for the character a bit. i can't really see other differences.
then there is this babyhead example a little bit above. I'm sorry to say, but that looks just scary. and quite far from realistic. (thank goodness)
and the first example in this thread.. ok, that is a great looking model, but again, I don't see how that is realistic.. instead of skin, it looks plastic. you know, that sort of rubbery plastic those masks are made of.

maybe I'm looking them wrong... but. just wanted to know what this is all about. :)

.b
The examples don't really show the potential of the script honestly. Subsurface scattering is a big deal in CG these days and if used properly can greatly enhance the realism of certain object. SSS was used on Gollum in the the LOTR films and was used on all the characters in the film 'The Incredibles'. However just like any other material property, SSS should not be uniformly applied to an objects surface, ie: it is stronger around the nose and ears or that little flap of skin between the thumb and index finger.

The best way to use this script I think is to do multipass rendering and for the SSS pass add a mask in photoshop/gimp to vary the afffect in different parts of the image. This is kind of klunky, but until we have this as a proper material channel in the internal rendering engine it will have to do.

Cheers,
Xarf

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