Raytracing and moore's law

Blender's renderer and external renderer export

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ideasman
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Raytracing and moore's law

Post by ideasman » Sat May 24, 2003 4:49 am

I know that raytracers are slow compared to scanline renderers but I wonder if that will matter...

If you consider moores law that computer speeds will double every 18 months (the basic gist) Will raytracers end up being fast enough on normal pc's

Jamesk
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Post by Jamesk » Sat May 24, 2003 10:42 am

Too bad my salary doesn't follow this law too. Then I could buy myself a new PC every 18 months =)

green
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Re: Raytracing and moore's law

Post by green » Sat May 24, 2003 11:10 am

ideasman wrote:I know that raytracers are slow compared to scanline renderers but I wonder if that will matter...

If you consider moores law that computer speeds will double every 18 months (the basic gist) Will raytracers end up being fast enough on normal pc's
that has already happened.

just a matter of how much time you want to spend on your renderings to finish.

thorax
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Re: Raytracing and moore's law

Post by thorax » Tue May 27, 2003 11:09 pm

ideasman wrote:I know that raytracers are slow compared to scanline renderers but I wonder if that will matter...

If you consider moores law that computer speeds will double every 18 months (the basic gist) Will raytracers end up being fast enough on normal pc's

Ray-tracing will never be constant time
efficient, but better hardware will make it seem more so and
people's inability to perceive the difference between 3 levels of
reflection and N levels of reflection will rule out the need to do
accurate ray-tracing.. When designing hardware components one
can only think about it "what is really needed to get the effect of
the desired result" because getting the precise result in Constant or Linear time is impossible considering the behaviour of the algorithm..

Smerity
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Moore's Law works on pretty much everything

Post by Smerity » Sat May 31, 2003 9:09 am

You seem to forget that Moore's Law works on pretty much everything...
So, when your PC is 2 times as powerful in 8 months, the scenes may require that much more power too!

Brij
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Re: Raytracing and moore's law

Post by Brij » Mon Jun 23, 2003 11:37 am

ideasman wrote:I know that raytracers are slow compared to scanline renderers but I wonder if that will matter...

If you consider moores law that computer speeds will double every 18 months (the basic gist) Will raytracers end up being fast enough on normal pc's
Well Moores law isn't exactly a law, more of an observation. He studied it, and predicted that the time/development would be as stated. I'm not too sure what you mean by "fast enough on normal pc's". But from what the others have said, I agree, it depends how much you are willing to pay, I don't think raytracing is ever "fast" enough. Hell, when the average user can raytrace in realtime, it still wont' be fast enough, humans are lazy by nature, and not many of them like to wait for things. Also, time is money, so we want things faster and faster.

I'm sure if you have a renderfarm, some basic raytracing wont' be that much of an issue for you, but remember, big time movie projects, all have to wait ages, even with arrays and arrays of machines, it takes a while to raytrace.

So what am I saying?..I don't really know myself...haha

Na I'm kidding...raytracing will always increase in speed, maybe someone will create a newer algorith(like that other post on soft shadows)..that will speed up raytracing, or some new method of rendering faster. It can be something as little as a new algorithm, or new microarchitecture technolgoy that can break moores law.

But moores followers, and most comp-sci's agree, its only time before we break the "law"(observation).

Thats it for me..
-Brij

bertram
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Re: Moore's Law works on pretty much everything

Post by bertram » Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:12 pm

Smerity wrote:You seem to forget that Moore's Law works on pretty much everything...
So, when your PC is 2 times as powerful in 8 months, the scenes may require that much more power too!
And this again is like Blinn's Law :wink:

joeri
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Post by joeri » Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:24 pm

I think at some point they will be fast enough.
For me a ray tracer is fast enough if I can interact with it.

rcas
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Post by rcas » Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:49 pm

Once we get Raytracers using the current Graphic Cards power to help rendering a Scene we may have that kind of power.

Some raytracers already exist that use the latest NVidia / ATI Cards for Shadows and Light calculations and they are really fast.

The same scene when rendered with only the CPU took 43 minutes while rendering with the CPU + Graphic Card took 37 seconds.

I hope to see a time where Yafray will use the Graphic Card power to reduce the time to render, it would improve our times to make some work or even learn some new stuff, big time.
How to use a Blender:
Put your model, rig, animation and textures in the Blender, turn the Blender on and wait for it to Render, then turn the Blender off and show it to your friends.

konrad_ha
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Post by konrad_ha » Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:07 pm

By utilizing Ambient Occlusing I am already using a raytracing method to create beautyful animations. And I am rendering HD-720p (meaning 1280*720 pix) and it still renders in reasonable time (8 min per frame) on my Athlon 64 3000+.

Using Raytracing isn't luxury anymore.

ideasman
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Post by ideasman » Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:29 am

yeah- Its good to see blenders raytracing now, I posted when blender didnt have raytracing... but it looks like PC's and particulaly renderfarms of PC's will make ray tracing very useable even for ppl like me with only 3 PC's

rednelb
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Post by rednelb » Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:46 am

rcas: please can you provide the link to this raytracer you are talking about? the one with gpu utilization.
thanks!

rcas
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Post by rcas » Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:30 am

rednelb wrote:rcas: please can you provide the link to this raytracer you are talking about? the one with gpu utilization.
thanks!
I will try to find it, but I didn't bookmark it, so it might take a while.
One thing I know is that it was posted at elysiun forum if I recall.
I even think it was posted in these forum as well, not sure though.

Once I find it I will post it.
Someone was already doing a export script for Blender, very nice :D !
How to use a Blender:
Put your model, rig, animation and textures in the Blender, turn the Blender on and wait for it to Render, then turn the Blender off and show it to your friends.

ideasman
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Post by ideasman » Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:54 am

tHERES NVidiea Gelarto-

and another open source one that used DirectX only.
http://www.bee-www.com/parthenon/index.htm

rcas
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Post by rcas » Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:21 pm

ideasman wrote: another open source one that used DirectX only.
http://www.bee-www.com/parthenon/index.htm
Yup, this was one of those, but there was another one using OpenGL, but I can't find the link anywhere.
How to use a Blender:
Put your model, rig, animation and textures in the Blender, turn the Blender on and wait for it to Render, then turn the Blender off and show it to your friends.

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