Renderman Support Started

Blender's renderer and external renderer export

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starea1
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:13 am

Post by starea1 »

ok. Now i am confused.
As first there is issue of implementation of renderman in blender.
After that you say that renderman is BMRT, and after then - BMRT sucks???
Do we talk here about implementation of comercial renderman (Pixar) or renderman from Exluna (IE MBRT)???
I don't wan to be pain here ,but i am really confused.
Thanks in advance for explanation.

starea1
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:13 am

Post by starea1 »

:( Huh! Now i am confused....
First you say that renderman is acctualy BMRT, then you say it sucks???
Do we talk here about Pixar renderman or Exluna BMRT?
I don't want to be pain here, but would be nice if you can explain a bit this..
Thanks!

Pablosbrain
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 7:39 pm

Post by Pablosbrain »

Renderman (RIB) is essentially a Spec. It is also the name of Pixars renderer. BMRT is a renderer that is renderman compliant. Building in Renderman support will open up support for any external renderer that supports Renderman compliant data.

Renderman support good!

I must say also... Green is the guy to do it... his BlenderMan scripts are great and work wonderfully. I agree with his idea to keep it simple. no new interfaces or anything... just configuring a new renderer is all that is needed. All your textures and animation data stays the same. Can't wait to see this get put into the main CVS.

starea1
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:13 am

Post by starea1 »

:D
Aaaaaa! Well, that explains all. Much better picture of what is going to be done is in my head now.
In that case i can say only one - go on! If on any way i can help (as nonprogramer) feel free to contact me!

Thanks Pablosbrain!!!

Eric
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:01 pm
Location: Sweden, Norrköping

Post by Eric »

Pablosbrain wrote:Renderman (RIB) is essentially a Spec. It is also the name of Pixars renderer.
It's not a the name of their renderer.

Pablosbrain
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 7:39 pm

Post by Pablosbrain »

Ok... not exactly... but as it says here... "Pixar's RenderMan is our rendering technology,..."
http://www.pixar.com/renderman/index.html
Same difference..

Eric
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:01 pm
Location: Sweden, Norrköping

Post by Eric »

Pablosbrain wrote:Ok... not exactly... but as it says here... "Pixar's RenderMan is our rendering technology,..."
http://www.pixar.com/renderman/index.html
Same difference..
There is a difference between "Pixar's Renderman" and "Renderman". On their website they call their renderer "Pixar's Renderman" and not "Renderman".

But yeah, it's quite silly :)

green
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 8:04 pm

Post by green »


kniffo
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 8:08 am
Location: Denmark

Post by kniffo »

Well, Pablosbrain, you said, Green's scripts are great, please, where can I get them?

In general: BMRT is the only free implementation of the renderman interface. As I am reading the book "Advanced Renderman" I am adicted to it as well :)
BUT, BMRT is not developed any further! BUT :) BMRT is the renderer that is nearest to PRMan allthough its more slow and does not include all features. BUT, you can produce nice pictures using it - just look onto their website. ( commercial productions! ) [/BUT] ;)

The techniques in the industry are developing very fast - every day you realize some new one. But this project is a free one and there is a lot of creativity to work out problems and come to good sollutions concerning lack of functionality of a renderer.

If BMRT does not support state of the art techniques, we can implement them by our own!

Perhaps there are some ppl, that may form a sidegropup of this great project to develop a renderer that supports all new techniques, allthough this is a very difficuilt task... :)

but, hey .. we are open source!

/Knifo

green
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 8:04 pm

Post by green »

aqsis and 3delight are free
aqsis is even opensource free.

kniffo
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 8:08 am
Location: Denmark

Post by kniffo »

green wrote:aqsis and 3delight are free
aqsis is even opensource free.
ok. I've looked onto the site of aqsis. Does it produces proper images?
So far, the 3delight looks good.

My main concern is the ability to use renderman shaders. And I would like to have a whole renderman shader studio in blender. Am i crazy? As I am reading the book, I am quite interested in creating and writing shaders - a good studio like in maya can make the work of a cg-artist or shader writer much more easier! You are right green, if you say, that one can write a shader in notepad too, thats right. But, for a lot more ppl it's more convenient to have akind of ui, where they can shift, add or do what ever they want with there shaders. Perhaps there could be a ui where you can include an editor with syntax highlighting to write shaders or stubs for further using.

I would be glad to work with you together green.

Oh well, I did'nt read your answer in http://www.blender.org/modules.php?op=m ... 8&start=15
I should have noticed this much earlier ;)

/Kniffo

green
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 8:04 pm

Post by green »

I have not tried aqsis yet. But I havent seen any good image generated from it yet.

http://www.dream.com.ua/thetool.html
Here is what you want. I suppose.

Writing a new editor like this one(but much better) is probibly not something that will be done (by me anyways) within the next 6 months. So there is no point in waiting for it I think.
I am going to try and create shaders on the fly from the material editor in blender for the exporter though.

Martin
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 6:42 pm

Post by Martin »

OK, here's my idea for shader interface, which I think would be intuitive for hardcore Blenderheads and those with Renderman experience alike:

(DISCLAIMER: I am not a programmer, so I have no idea whether or not the following is easy or difficult to do!)

When you fire up Blender, it automatically looks in your system's SHADERS path (C:\3Delight\shaders or whatever).

Then, when you select the little drop-down menu at the top of the Materials screen, instead of listing all the Materials you have created for the current scene, you automatically see all the shaders currently in your SHADER path e.g. "metal", "shiny_metal" "parquet_plank" etc. They're all listed one above the other in the traditional Blender fashion.

When you select a shader, say "metal", the Materials screen will only display those parameters which that shader supports, colour, ambient colour, Kd, Ka etc. So under the bonnet, the Materials screen would have to be able to re-draw itself on the fly according to what shader you're currently looking at. The Textures screen would only be viewable if the shader currently selected in Materials supported textures, e.g. "paintedplastic" "supertexmap" or whatever.

Does this make sense? Is it the kind of thing you had in mind, green?

P.S. Keep up the good work! :D

Martin
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 6:42 pm

Post by Martin »

Some more thoughts:

Maybe the 'Texture' screen should support not just tiled TIFF textures but also displacement shaders. Maybe the 2D texture selection should be an option in the Materials screen rather than the textures screen.

That way, if for instance you wanted to model a ball with a picture of the earth mapped onto it, but with a dented displacement map, you would first go into Materials, select the "paintedplastic" shader, set your specularity settings etc, then there would be an option in the Materials screen allowing you to browse through your hard drive for earth.tif. Then you'd go into the Textures screen, select the "dented" displacement shader and voila.

Part of the problem here is terminology. In Blender you have Materials and Textures, in RenderMan you have surface shaders and displacement shaders.

Anyway, an analogous model could then be applied to light shaders and volume shaders. If you selected a light, and then went into Blender's Light screen you would be able to pick lighting shaders in the same way as you pick surface shaders in the Materials screen, and would then have the same ability to configure parameters. In this instance, Blender's viewport would have to instantly update any changes you make to spotlight size etc on the fly. Again, I have no idea whether this would be possible.

Blender's World screen could be used as, amongst other things, an interface for loading volume shaders.

Blender's Radiosity screen could also now be used as the interface for setting not only Blender's own radiosity but also the external renderer's GI settings.

Following Shaderman's idea, it would be groovy if the little ball to the left of the Material/Texture/Light screens could actually interface directly with the chosen renderer. That is one of Shaderman's better features, also already implemented to nice effect in the BlenderMan script! :)

Hope you can all see where I'm coming from with these thoughts, and I hope they're useful for green!

M

Pablosbrain
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 7:39 pm

Post by Pablosbrain »

Besides all the new possibilities involved with opensourcing Blender... I cannot wait to have an easy way to use something like 3delight or aqsis for rendering. I'm just getting to the beginning of the animation segment in an animated short I and a few others have been planning and working on part time for the past year (www.fwd-rev.com). Currently we are modeling as well as texturing. Then comes the rigging and animating... then finally rendering... I would love to use a better renderer... especially one with good depth of field. Otherwise I'll be doing some fun/wierd layer rendering type stuff.. I can't wait!!!!!! It will be awesome! Thanks to green and all others trying to do this stuff!

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