what about passes?

Blender's renderer and external renderer export

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bertram
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Post by bertram »

I don't like the cyan checkboxes... :D
... just kiddin'!

This is a great idea: The idea of selectively rendering blender-layers aswell as the idea of configuring the render passes in such panel.
But why not killing two birds with one stone and making the list of passes and the configuration of each pass (regarding layer(s), specular, bump, mirror, etc.) scalable like the constraints?

wavk
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Post by wavk »

Killing birds?! With stone?! Shame on you! :evil:

bobthevirus
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Post by bobthevirus »

konrad_ha wrote:Thinking of animations (like always...):

How does the internal renderer handle the picture-data anyway? Does it compute different passes (specular, color, diffuse) and compose them into the final image? If so it should be feasable to create multiple passes without taking additional rendering-time.
When I was looking throught the render code while wokring out stuff about matarial trees, It appeared as thought the render just does everything all in one go, and all the code is very tightly-knit, making it impossible to seperate anything out. However implementing zbuffer output directly should be a piece of cake for any of our wonderful coders.

joeri
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Post by joeri »

harkyman asked:
"what do you think"

Wauw. Looks good. Should not be hard to add the layers :)

Is it a fixed number or does is need a + and - key?
And what happends to slots 2 & 3, save a black image?

Nice addition might be presets; "all in one", "one sf per pass".
How about an off button? so you can type in the suffix name and the pass channel it should render, but you can turn it off because you only want to rerender the Spec. pass?

File format per pass? Now I'm getting silly... :) although... B/w is enough for AO. and 16bit might be handy for Zbuf.

Another approach would be to have only 1 line of settings per scene.
Type in the suffix (or subdir: //anim/spec/005.tga ) in the image output box, use the -S in command line if you want this pass re-renderd or not.
The silly bit there would be to have the same (linked) scene in different SCE: but the smart bit would be to have all the render options (size, fileformat, filename etc) per pass.
This would also work if the Passes that harkyman made where part of the scene (not the render globals). Then the user could do both approaches.

3dsman
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Post by 3dsman »

but how were made the shaders? because everything is composited in shaders gouraud, phong,... so to make a pass system it will be an obligation to change or make an alternative to these shaders.
I only talk about shaders not textures so there's not lot of things to do :-)

i think it can be better to make shaders in "kit" (only one shader with specular, reflexion,bump,... as textures) like that the passes can be implemented into the only one shader)

i don't know if it's possible :-)

coltseaver
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Location: Brussels, belgium

Post by coltseaver »

Ideasman:
Ultimatly it would be nice to render all passes into 1 multi-layered XCF/PSD
it's an idea of mine :)
and from this, i extended it to another with capability to auto set material's channel from multi-layered XCF
eg: One xcf containing all textures channels distributed on several layers labeled with a spec ID, bump ID, etc etc
and then retrieving it in blender automatically.
Check out on elysiun, the features request's thread.
(Gimp could save as a psd still.)
Obviously Da Gimp can save as psd, but psd isn't an OPEN Format, xcf does is an open format whereas restrictive/closed Photoshop doesn't make any effort to handle it!

Please, Really think you are using an opensource software not simply one of free paid 3DSmin.

I don't want to be silly, but you have to know that.

joeri
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Post by joeri »

coltseaver wrote:...but psd isn't an OPEN Format...
Good point.
But psd is a standard. XCF is not.

a quote from the www.ftgimp.com site:
While XCF is an excellent choice in file format, it is not as portable as one might like. It is wise to save images that are not for use exclusively from within The GIMP using a differing format.

another file format I thought might be interesting is OpenEXR, but it does not seem to support layers only channels :(

edit: http://www.openexr.net/details.html#intro

brendan_orr
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Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2002 10:14 pm

Post by brendan_orr »

OpenEXR has support for an arbitrary number of named channels, so:
r (diffuse passes)
g
b
a (opacity pass)
z (depth pass)
ref_r (reflection)
ref_g
ref_b
spec_r (specular)
spec_g
spec_b
...
etc.

quoth from OpenExr.net:
...arbitrary image channels
OpenEXR images can contain an arbitrary number and combination of image channels, for example red, green, blue, and alpha, luminance, and sub-sampled chroma channels, depth, surface normal directions, or motion vectors....
additionaly, out of interest:
...ability to store additional data
Often it is necessary to annotate images with additional data; for example, color timing information, process tracking data, or camera position and view direction. OpenEXR allows storing of an arbitrary number of extra attributes, of arbitrary type, in an image file. Software that reads OpenEXR files ignores attributes it does not understand....
--Brendan

coltseaver
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Post by coltseaver »

Joeri:
I like you :)
This is a standard just for photoshop.

A standard is: open, with a clear description of specificities <-- i didn't see that.
and whose the library is available for all <-- i didn't see that

xml is a standard
mpeg is a standard
pcm is a standard
opengl is a standard

xcf could be a standard anyway if you know other file format multi-layer/multi-channels and open, i would agree.

well, i stop, it's not my job, you are free to use what you want.

lukep
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Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:39 pm

Post by lukep »

coltseaver wrote:Joeri:
I like you :)
This is a standard just for photoshop.

A standard is: open, with a clear description of specificities <-- i didn't see that.
and whose the library is available for all <-- i didn't see that
a standard is a format which allow exchange. Where did you saw it need to be open ? Hell, you have to pay Hefty sums to get official ISO standards.

If i take eg Graphic Converter (the best converter available on the mac), he knows more than 80 formats families including many rather cryptic ones.

With it, i can read any PSD file (flattening it), he don't know about XCF. In fact, i have yet to find an utility in the non Linux world which read XCF. many will read, at least partially (often dont import paths, flatten layers), PSD. More, specification for PSD 3.0 was publied and you can get more recent ones from adobe with adequate license.

So which type is the de-facto Exchange format ?

joeri
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Post by joeri »

"This is a standard just for photoshop."

Well yes and no. As a fileformat you are right. Although Maya now has the ability to read layers as shaders (color/spec/bump etc).

But as a user you are not quite right. I can go to any printshop and they will be able to read a psd file. I can go to any video edit suite and they will read my psd file. That makes it a standard.

What use is xcf and open to me if nobody can read that file?

"So which type is the de-facto Exchange format ?"

Well, thats not enough, we want layers to be stored to.
Every render pass should be a layer.

OpenEXR has channels, but does a photoshop or Gimp understand that it should merge the spec_r , spec_g & spec_b channels into a RGB spec layer?
If so, I'd go for OpenEXR. It's open & free & gratis, has code for download.
And it supports 16 and 32 bit (lossless and lossy compressed) images.

It's downside is it's only a standard at ILM. :)

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