Let the physX card do the baking

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Izarf
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Let the physX card do the baking

Post by Izarf » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:20 pm

What about a function that let the user Blender to bake the simulation using either the physX PCI-card or both the pci-card and the cpu in a multithreaded operation.
Sice the physX card is especially good at calculating physics, it might be very handy at baking large animations through the addition of speed it provides.

Many future games will require the user to have a PhysX-card installed, which will make the product more widely spread among the general public.

A link to the developers of physx: http://www.ageia.com/

What do you think?

z3r0_d
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Post by z3r0_d » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:06 pm

I think havok's approach [using a graphics card] is better

... that said, I don't know what erwin has in mind with respect to physx cards

Izarf
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Post by Izarf » Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:32 pm

who/what is erwin?

Physics cards are developed to be especially good at computing with recursion which is the type of comuting that is made in a physics simulation.
Graphics cards however, are not that good at doing this type of calculation.

What I am trying to say is that they are optimized to do as following:
Graphics card: compute->output, compute->output....
Physics card: compute->useNewData->ComputeWithNewData->Output....

That will result in a fairly slowe execution among the Graphics cards, but still, they are the most popular cards among the general public which would allow anyone to let some other processor do the job instead of the CPU.

Will Blender follow havok and let the Graphics card do the job in the future?

z3r0_d
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Post by z3r0_d » Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:14 pm

Erwin Coumans is the one working on the physics engine now used in blender [bullet], and other aspects of blender's game engine.

He used to work for havok, and also worked for sony on getting PhysX acceleration on the playstation 3 [cell architecture, the PS3 uses the cell to do PhysX stuff [supposedly much faster than other platforms] instead of having a PhysX board].

In my quick searching I couldn't find erwin saying anything about PhysX or GPU acceleration of bullet.

LetterRip
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Post by LetterRip » Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:58 pm

He has stated that there isn't access to the type of APIs he needs for it to take place. So for now the answer is not likely in the near future.

LetterRip

Izarf
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Post by Izarf » Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:14 pm

Thats sad to hear. I really hoped Blender would be an earlybird with moving its threads out from the CPU.

Thanks for your information

erwin
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 9:10 pm

Post by erwin » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:16 pm

Bullet Physics is open source, multiplatform and being improved all the time. See new features for Blender 2.43:
http://www.continuousphysics.com/Bullet ... .php?t=752
For the future, there are plans for SIMD, multi-core and GPU optimizations for Bullet.

I don't see any future for this Ageia PPU chip, its way slower then GPU and even slower then many CPU's.

More importantly, we can't have a closed source engine that doesn't compile on all platforms. And the problem of adding Ageia support is that it takes away users from Bullet Physics. And that is really bad in my opinion :)

Please support Bullet and other open source, that fits more with Blender.
Thanks,
Erwin
Izarf wrote:Thats sad to hear. I really hoped Blender would be an earlybird with moving its threads out from the CPU.

Thanks for your information

johnmarroquin
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:34 am

a little off topic, sorry :)

Post by johnmarroquin » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:44 pm

Hey Erwin, i really like your bulletphysics program, and i am really interested in running it on my playstation 3 yellow dog linux platform. I saw on your website that you have it up and running (blender and bulletphysics in a screen shot) in the blender program, what version are you using (you have the new 2.43 but is it static or dynamic for linux PPC)??, and are there any libriries that I need before installing and running both programs? Thanks for any help.
John

FuzzMaster
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Post by FuzzMaster » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:16 pm

erwin wrote:Bullet Physics is open source, multiplatform and being improved all the time. See new features for Blender 2.43:
http://www.continuousphysics.com/Bullet ... .php?t=752
For the future, there are plans for SIMD, multi-core and GPU optimizations for Bullet.

I don't see any future for this Ageia PPU chip, its way slower then GPU and even slower then many CPU's.

More importantly, we can't have a closed source engine that doesn't compile on all platforms. And the problem of adding Ageia support is that it takes away users from Bullet Physics. And that is really bad in my opinion :)

Please support Bullet and other open source, that fits more with Blender.
Thanks,
Erwin
Izarf wrote:Thats sad to hear. I really hoped Blender would be an earlybird with moving its threads out from the CPU.

Thanks for your information
Truly a shame. From what I've seen, my PPU calculates fluids (though I'll admit Ageia's fluids um... suck, for the time being), clothes, softbodies, and rigid bodies a hell of a lot faster than my Core 2 Duo at 2.4ghz does.

erwin
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Post by erwin » Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:56 pm

FuzzMaster wrote:
Truly a shame. From what I've seen, my PPU calculates fluids (though I'll admit Ageia's fluids um... suck, for the time being), clothes, softbodies, and rigid bodies a hell of a lot faster than my Core 2 Duo at 2.4ghz does.
This is like saying that Blender users should use the free version of Maya, which would be very bad for Blender development. Using PhysX would take away users from open source physics engines like Bullet. It is not just about speed. Ageia PhysX is not open source, and doesn't support all Blender platforms.

Bullet Physics is open source and support all Blender platforms, and also Playstation 3.

Also important: a GPU is much faster then the PPU for special effect physics.

See the NVidia 8800 completely outperform Ageia's chips here, for both rigid body and fluids:
http://www.iii.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~takahiroharada/
or more info http://www.continuousphysics.com/Bullet ... .php?t=834

For now, we first need to improve the userinterface to author rigid body dynamics in blender. Blender 2.43 adds constraint editing, and debug visualization. Please check the new demos:
http://www.continuousphysics.com/Bullet ... .php?t=752

Erwin

erwin
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 9:10 pm

Re: a little off topic, sorry :)

Post by erwin » Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:07 pm

johnmarroquin wrote:Hey Erwin, i really like your bulletphysics program, and i am really interested in running it on my playstation 3 yellow dog linux platform. I saw on your website that you have it up and running (blender and bulletphysics in a screen shot) in the blender program, what version are you using (you have the new 2.43 but is it static or dynamic for linux PPC)??, and are there any libriries that I need before installing and running both programs? Thanks for any help.
John
You need blender-2.43RC1-linux-glibc2.3.2-powerpc

Following steps are needed:

I took a Yellow Dog account, to use the private yum repository.
Then (not sure about all of them, didn't keep track of all installations. I might have downloaded some libraries, and just configured/make/make install them):

yum install libSDL
yum install freeglut
yum install freeglut-devel
yum install compat-libstdc++-33
yum install gettext-devel
yum install openal

also I added loading of module "glx" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf
Section "Module"
Load "dbe"
Load "extmod"
Load "fbdevhw"
Load "freetype"
Load "type1"
Load "glx"
#Load "dri"
EndSection
Hope this helps,
Erwin

death
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Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:39 am

Post by death » Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:56 pm

And if i want to render and bake faster i need a better graphic card?
I thought the CPU do the work o_O

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