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Let the physX card do the baking

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:20 pm
by Izarf
What about a function that let the user Blender to bake the simulation using either the physX PCI-card or both the pci-card and the cpu in a multithreaded operation.
Sice the physX card is especially good at calculating physics, it might be very handy at baking large animations through the addition of speed it provides.

Many future games will require the user to have a PhysX-card installed, which will make the product more widely spread among the general public.

A link to the developers of physx: http://www.ageia.com/

What do you think?

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:06 pm
by z3r0_d
I think havok's approach [using a graphics card] is better

... that said, I don't know what erwin has in mind with respect to physx cards

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:32 pm
by Izarf
who/what is erwin?

Physics cards are developed to be especially good at computing with recursion which is the type of comuting that is made in a physics simulation.
Graphics cards however, are not that good at doing this type of calculation.

What I am trying to say is that they are optimized to do as following:
Graphics card: compute->output, compute->output....
Physics card: compute->useNewData->ComputeWithNewData->Output....

That will result in a fairly slowe execution among the Graphics cards, but still, they are the most popular cards among the general public which would allow anyone to let some other processor do the job instead of the CPU.

Will Blender follow havok and let the Graphics card do the job in the future?

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:14 pm
by z3r0_d
Erwin Coumans is the one working on the physics engine now used in blender [bullet], and other aspects of blender's game engine.

He used to work for havok, and also worked for sony on getting PhysX acceleration on the playstation 3 [cell architecture, the PS3 uses the cell to do PhysX stuff [supposedly much faster than other platforms] instead of having a PhysX board].

In my quick searching I couldn't find erwin saying anything about PhysX or GPU acceleration of bullet.

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:58 pm
by LetterRip
He has stated that there isn't access to the type of APIs he needs for it to take place. So for now the answer is not likely in the near future.

LetterRip

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:14 pm
by Izarf
Thats sad to hear. I really hoped Blender would be an earlybird with moving its threads out from the CPU.

Thanks for your information

Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:16 pm
by erwin
Bullet Physics is open source, multiplatform and being improved all the time. See new features for Blender 2.43:
http://www.continuousphysics.com/Bullet ... .php?t=752
For the future, there are plans for SIMD, multi-core and GPU optimizations for Bullet.

I don't see any future for this Ageia PPU chip, its way slower then GPU and even slower then many CPU's.

More importantly, we can't have a closed source engine that doesn't compile on all platforms. And the problem of adding Ageia support is that it takes away users from Bullet Physics. And that is really bad in my opinion :)

Please support Bullet and other open source, that fits more with Blender.
Thanks,
Erwin
Izarf wrote:Thats sad to hear. I really hoped Blender would be an earlybird with moving its threads out from the CPU.

Thanks for your information

a little off topic, sorry :)

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:44 pm
by johnmarroquin
Hey Erwin, i really like your bulletphysics program, and i am really interested in running it on my playstation 3 yellow dog linux platform. I saw on your website that you have it up and running (blender and bulletphysics in a screen shot) in the blender program, what version are you using (you have the new 2.43 but is it static or dynamic for linux PPC)??, and are there any libriries that I need before installing and running both programs? Thanks for any help.
John

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:16 pm
by FuzzMaster
erwin wrote:Bullet Physics is open source, multiplatform and being improved all the time. See new features for Blender 2.43:
http://www.continuousphysics.com/Bullet ... .php?t=752
For the future, there are plans for SIMD, multi-core and GPU optimizations for Bullet.

I don't see any future for this Ageia PPU chip, its way slower then GPU and even slower then many CPU's.

More importantly, we can't have a closed source engine that doesn't compile on all platforms. And the problem of adding Ageia support is that it takes away users from Bullet Physics. And that is really bad in my opinion :)

Please support Bullet and other open source, that fits more with Blender.
Thanks,
Erwin
Izarf wrote:Thats sad to hear. I really hoped Blender would be an earlybird with moving its threads out from the CPU.

Thanks for your information
Truly a shame. From what I've seen, my PPU calculates fluids (though I'll admit Ageia's fluids um... suck, for the time being), clothes, softbodies, and rigid bodies a hell of a lot faster than my Core 2 Duo at 2.4ghz does.

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:56 pm
by erwin
FuzzMaster wrote:
Truly a shame. From what I've seen, my PPU calculates fluids (though I'll admit Ageia's fluids um... suck, for the time being), clothes, softbodies, and rigid bodies a hell of a lot faster than my Core 2 Duo at 2.4ghz does.
This is like saying that Blender users should use the free version of Maya, which would be very bad for Blender development. Using PhysX would take away users from open source physics engines like Bullet. It is not just about speed. Ageia PhysX is not open source, and doesn't support all Blender platforms.

Bullet Physics is open source and support all Blender platforms, and also Playstation 3.

Also important: a GPU is much faster then the PPU for special effect physics.

See the NVidia 8800 completely outperform Ageia's chips here, for both rigid body and fluids:
http://www.iii.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~takahiroharada/
or more info http://www.continuousphysics.com/Bullet ... .php?t=834

For now, we first need to improve the userinterface to author rigid body dynamics in blender. Blender 2.43 adds constraint editing, and debug visualization. Please check the new demos:
http://www.continuousphysics.com/Bullet ... .php?t=752

Erwin

Re: a little off topic, sorry :)

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:07 pm
by erwin
johnmarroquin wrote:Hey Erwin, i really like your bulletphysics program, and i am really interested in running it on my playstation 3 yellow dog linux platform. I saw on your website that you have it up and running (blender and bulletphysics in a screen shot) in the blender program, what version are you using (you have the new 2.43 but is it static or dynamic for linux PPC)??, and are there any libriries that I need before installing and running both programs? Thanks for any help.
John
You need blender-2.43RC1-linux-glibc2.3.2-powerpc

Following steps are needed:

I took a Yellow Dog account, to use the private yum repository.
Then (not sure about all of them, didn't keep track of all installations. I might have downloaded some libraries, and just configured/make/make install them):

yum install libSDL
yum install freeglut
yum install freeglut-devel
yum install compat-libstdc++-33
yum install gettext-devel
yum install openal

also I added loading of module "glx" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf
Section "Module"
Load "dbe"
Load "extmod"
Load "fbdevhw"
Load "freetype"
Load "type1"
Load "glx"
#Load "dri"
EndSection
Hope this helps,
Erwin

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:56 pm
by death
And if i want to render and bake faster i need a better graphic card?
I thought the CPU do the work o_O