Mobile phone 3D plugin?

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kid_tripod
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Mobile phone 3D plugin?

Post by kid_tripod » Sun Sep 07, 2003 1:21 pm

Hello,
I was just thinking it might be interesting to start thinking about getting the game engine bits running on mobile phones? Am I alone in being interested in this? (A port to Nokia Series 60 for a start . . . )

I seem to remember this was why the iPaq port was done, but some of the clever stuff there remains closed I think.

kt

z3r0_d
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Post by z3r0_d » Sun Sep 07, 2003 6:51 pm

(I almost started laughing)

Mobline phones don't have enough power to run blender (from what I know)
maybe if a phone runs the (intel?) xscale chip seen in some PDAs it would be more feasable (blender 2.10 had an ipaq version)

I believe the stuff that remained closed was what allowed blender to run so well on those systems. I think it would have to do some psudeo-floating point math with integers (PDAs don't have floating point processcors from what I know, floats are SLOW)

Oh, blender reaches a larger audience with fewer developers on computers. It would take more people working to get blender on mobile phones, and would not increase the blender community much. Though it may get us some good press...


maybe I should looks at that there nokia 60 series and see what kind of power they have

kid_tripod
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Post by kid_tripod » Sun Sep 07, 2003 8:04 pm

Series 60 phones are at least as powerful, or more so, than the iPaq on which Blender was demonstrated.They also have a smaller screen resolution to update. The integer maths issue should be surmountable, although it would be a lot easier/quicker if that library was opened . . .

Whilst PocketPCs tend to be XScales, which are rebranded StrongARMs, (branched at 7 series mixed with the DEC Alpha) phones tend to follow the traditional ARM development, so ARM9s are quite common.

The other thing is in the next year or so the first 3D accelerated phones will appear, (I kid you not) so having at least the guts of the engine running would be very cool.

I think producing an easy way to make 3D mobile content at low cost would dramatically increase the size of the community, although I don't think that should be a reason to do, or not do something.

z3r0_d
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Post by z3r0_d » Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:35 am

who is going to port opengl?

TheFallenWeeble
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Post by TheFallenWeeble » Mon Sep 08, 2003 3:05 am

I'm not saying the idea is practical, but you could look into OpenGL ES.

matt_e
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Post by matt_e » Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:12 am

I'm not that well versed on the specifics of the technology, but 3D on mobile phones is not as laughable as one may think. There already seem to be quite a lot of 3d-ish (though I doubt openGL) games on phones already - Doom was ported to the Ericsson P800 a while ago, and that phone's been out for some time while now. I'd wager that the next 1 or 2 generations of mobile phones will definitely be powerful enough to run a Blender variant (like the iPaq did).
z3r0_d wrote:Oh, blender reaches a larger audience with fewer developers on computers. It would take more people working to get blender on mobile phones, and would not increase the blender community much. Though it may get us some good press...
However, the market for 3D content on phones is very small at the moment, but soon when phones are sufficiently powerful, I predict it will grow fast. Games on mobile phones are still quite young, but especially now with the java enabled phones, are taking off really quickly and the manufacturers are really pushing them as a selling point. I bought a new phone about a year ago - when I was shopping around and talking to the salespeople, in most of the brochures/advertising/sales pitches for the high-end phones they seemd to put a huge amount of importance in talking about how many games the phones could play.

I think if this continues, I can imagine a lot of media/advertising/design companies wanting to hop on the bandwagon. Blender already has the tools to allow artists and designers to create this kind of content, and could quite feasibly take a huge slice of this professional market if it provides a great solution from the start, while the other 3D softs are stuck making unweildy plugins that need a programmer to work with and/or relying on other companies like macromedia to get their act together with Shockwave 3D etc. Anyway that's just my personal opinion - I think NaN might have had more of a chance of surviving had their 'interactive 3D' push come a bit later, when these sorts of technologies were a bit more mature.

You're absolutely right though that nothing will happen unless people can work on it - maybe an interesting angle for support/sponsorship could be to talk to people in the mobile phone business (manufacturers? content creators?). It could well be in their commercial interest to contribute to a project like this.

z3r0_d
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Post by z3r0_d » Mon Sep 08, 2003 10:58 pm

broken wrote:However, the market for 3D content on phones is very small at the moment, but soon when phones are sufficiently powerful, I predict it will grow fast. Games on mobile phones are still quite young, but especially now with the java enabled phones, are taking off really quickly and the manufacturers are really pushing them as a selling point. I bought a new phone about a year ago - when I was shopping around and talking to the salespeople, in most of the brochures/advertising/sales pitches for the high-end phones they seemd to put a huge amount of importance in talking about how many games the phones could play.
I can see that games will become more popular on phones (though we need a way to make the hardware of the phones treat the coders the same on many platforms, at the moment the solution seems to be java), I can't see 3d games on any platform that small (phones and mobile devices). I may change my mind come the sony psp, but at the moment I am a skeptic.

(broken does have some good points I hadn't considered though. Maybe this is how blender could suceed where NaN didn't get to see?)

Riskbreaker
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Post by Riskbreaker » Mon Oct 13, 2003 6:33 am

You guys seen the Nokia N-Gage?

z3r0_d
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Post by z3r0_d » Wed Oct 15, 2003 5:07 am

Riskbreaker wrote:You guys seen the Nokia N-Gage?
yes

have you seen wolfenstien (well...) on a ti calculator?
83+89another on 89

The screen is so small (even with more pixels on the ti-89) that playing these games is nauseating. I would imagine the ngage is the same way.

(I also don't expect the ngage to sell well considering the cost of games, and how difficult they are to swap (you have to take out the battery to slide out the sd card))

Riskbreaker
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Post by Riskbreaker » Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:55 am

So im guessing you haven't held an Ngage in your hands yet?

You have seen the Gamegear, no? Its like that, only a bit smaller (the phone itself, not the screen). Screen isnt that small. Saw Pandamonium running on it. Didnt get to play it coz some kid was hogging the display model. It wasnt bad. You are right about the bad design with the whole thing of removing the battery to change games. And the specs says it lasts 6 hours of gaming. Not good enough. Still, its a phone, you dont complain about a bad reception on your digital camera :wink: I too dont imagine it selling well, but the point of the thread, or at least i thought, was if 3D (of blender sort) was possible on a cell phone.

Mandrake0
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game engine

Post by Mandrake0 » Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:21 pm

hi
i have found this company who is making a game engine for mobile phones.

http://www.fathammer.com/


have fun

mandrake

Mats78
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Post by Mats78 » Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:40 am

This is getting somewhat frightening but have you guys seen Doom for digital cameras? I've tried it on my HP618 (it had to be done).

http://doomworld.com/classicdoom/ports/ ... platform=9
http://digita.mame.net/

-Mats

sherman
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Post by sherman » Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:18 pm

Well, I have had some experience developing mobile J2ME games
for the Nokia Series 40 and I daresay that 3D for handphones
are not that far off. Here is the recently released J2ME specification
for 3D on mobile phones:
http://www.forum.nokia.com/main/1,,1_0_ ... tml#jsr184

Best regards,
Sherman Chin
Sherman3D Sdn Bhd
www.Sherman3D.com

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi » Mon Dec 08, 2003 11:39 pm

I can't see 3d games on any platform that small
Er... Where in the world have you been? Its here and its great. Nokia N-gage playes Tomb Raider exactly like a Playstation (albeit with a smaller screen resolution), meaning it has once and for all beat the Game Boy Advance for power.

Nokia N-Gage screenshots from Tomb Raider:

Image
Image


I do not belive that running the actual Blender program would be useful - the screen is too small, but for games it could be cool! Seemingly its only Java so far though which could be a problem..

sherman
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Post by sherman » Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:45 pm

The catridge based 3D games for the N-gage (including Tomb Raider
and Red Faction) are actually programmed in Symbian C++. Most
of the new high-end Nokia phones would have Symbian C++ installed.
Although Symbian C++ is fast, it is not cross-platform. Java 2
Micro Edition (J2ME), on the other hand, is supposedly cross-platform,
meaning that J2ME software should run similarly on all mobile phones
that have J2ME support. The current phones (Nokia Series 40) already
have J2ME support but the 3D specification for J2ME is just being
introduced so it would be sometime before we see actual hardware-
accelerated 3D games done with J2ME (although some software
simulated ones are already out there).
_________________
Best regards,
Sherman Chin
Sherman3D Sdn Bhd
www.Sherman3D.com

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