Brasilia 3D Project

Game Engine, Players & Web Plug-in, Virtual Reality, support for other engines

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arangel
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Location: Brasília - Brazil
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Brasilia 3D Project

Post by arangel »

I´m starting this thread about my Virtual Brasilia Project to get some info on getting it better and also to make some feature requests. When I was in the Netherlands, Ton told me to do that... he said that I needed to get in tough with the developers (game engine mainly), because my project was pushing the envelope on Blender performance.
Well, here we go:

The Brasilia 3D project is a virtual ride in the city of Brasilia, capital city of Brazil.

The developments of the last few months...

1. My presentattion on the Blender conference (Flash video):
http://www.3dzine.com.br/Brasilia3D/BSB_Holanda.html

2. Showcased on the best Brazilian CG Magazine:
http://www1.uol.com.br/digitaldesigner/especial.html

The new version is here:

www.3dzine.com.br/Brasilia3D/Brasilia3D.zip
Unzip and run the _inicio.bat file
The _InicioFramerate.bat shows framerate and profile info

How to use:
Use the arrow keys to move.
Keys 1 to 4 change the cameras for the car view.
5 key goes to helicopter view.


I´m getting a little "desperate" because of the decreasing frame rate I'm getting on this scene.
I´m able to run the scene fine on my Pavilion notebook (P4 3.2 GHz, Geforce FX 5200), but it´s already slow on my desktop Athlon 1.8 GHz with Geforce 4 Ti.

The scene has now 1200 objects and 50 K vertices. and I still need to add some hundreds of objects... I think that´s what getting the FPS low... the amount of objects... some of them can be joined, some don´t.
I have many textures in the scene too.

I´m even getting some doubts about if Blender can still handle this project... but I would HATE to stop using it...

Can you guys please tell me the framerate you´re getting (along with computer and graphic card used)? Please test at fullscreen also.

Do you have any clues about ways to get a performance boost?

I´m plannig on doing a exposition with a 3 monitor setup. Any clues about the best graphic card setup?
I thought about one PCI Express 16x and one PCI Express at 8x (both Nvidia Quadro FX 1400 - one with 2 monitors and one with one more). BUt I´m afraid the they will show diferent framerates. One other way is using 3 Quadros FX 600 PCI 256 MB (they´re slower, but use the same bus speed)... Still researching on that...

A great thanks for all the Blender developers, specially for Kester!
Alexandre Rangel
Multimedia Designer
www.3Dzine.com.br

z3r0_d
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Post by z3r0_d »

you probably should have warned people about Brazilla3D being 10Mb
[also, it looks like some textures were not packed, things are white]

well anway, I think you have a very good excuse to look at a different engine [is that out of the question?]

I got from 10 to 16fps in the window that was opened...

hrm, 4 meters per blender unit, 1.5k units, 6 kilometers square
~3.75 miles square?! [huge!... well]

~42% going to the scenegraph eh? seems like blender has trouble with that many objects

*checks how many*

1266!!!!

*tries joining buildings*

hrm, not much of an effect.




another engine is pretty much the only idea I'm left with. it looks like you want to add enough detail to make something like a [much larger] grand theft auto 3 [or newer, like vice city or san andreas] detailed environment.
[I don't belive the engine used in that game is availiable to mod, unlike say unreal tournament 2004's engine [the unreal 2 engine]]

-efbie-
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Post by -efbie- »

I have quite decent FPS on my laptop : from 15 to 70 the average is 50.
but if you want to use a better engine, you shoul check OGRE. It is GPL and really efficient, and you can export from blender.

halibut
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Post by halibut »

can you create stand alone exe files with ogre?

z3r0_d
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Post by z3r0_d »

halibut wrote:can you create stand alone exe files with ogre?
OGRE is merely a 3d engine, built in c/c++ and using directx and opengl

so, you would have to write code [like physics, or a way to refrence physics] with it, and compile that.

arangel
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Post by arangel »

Thanks for the info, guys!

z3r0_d, thw white building don´t have textures yet.

As efbie pointed out, it plays ok on some machines. The problem is that there´s still much to be added into the scene.

I am thinking of moving to other engine. As I´m not a programing wiz, I looking into Quest 3D as a alternative (not much code needed).
Alexandre Rangel
Multimedia Designer
www.3Dzine.com.br

arangel
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Post by arangel »

So right now I´m analising the following engines, looking for capability of running a scene with the Brasilia 3D characteristics, with some highlights (quick research):

Quest 3D
http://www.quest3d.com
- Visual "a la Logic Bricks, creation
- Very high FPS on prototype scene I created
- Plays with DirectX
- Good integration with Blender via the .x file format (preserves UVs)
-Options for nature painting & network extras
- Fast development with template walkthrough
- Windows only
- Now this is extra cool about the Quest3D environment:
It works with a magnific compression utility from nVidia (supplied in the Deme version) that plugs into Photoshop to preview in 3D and save .DDS texture files. This files can get up to 10x smaller then a equivalent jpeg, and travels compressed to the graphic card buffer memory.

- OGRE
Open source
Windows, Linux and Mac OSX
Heavy programming?

- 3D GameStudio A6
Windows only

- Crystal Space

Do any of you guys know anything about these engines?
Alexandre Rangel
Multimedia Designer
www.3Dzine.com.br

z3r0_d
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Post by z3r0_d »

arangel wrote: - OGRE
Open source
Windows, Linux and Mac OSX
Heavy programming?
yes, exactly
arangel wrote: - Crystal Space
also open source, I belive it has more non-graphic stuff with it [like physics], but I've not used it

an-toni
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Post by an-toni »

my current engine of choice has been Soya 3d, http://home.gna.org/oomadness/en/soya/ .

the devs have released one full game in it, called Slune, which involved moving around in a city .. the visibility range is pretty limited (there's fog :) but fps is good and looks ok. Blender is the main tool Soya devs and users use for modelling animating - the shape loading function now even knows how to get them straight from a .blend (by launching the export script in blender behind the scenes). one of them is developing a RPG adventure called Balazar now -- both games are GPL with public CVSs, and there are some other games by other people too.

the main thing is that is has a very nice API and is easy to program with in Python. better than the Blender game-engine API, I have to say.

the engine itself used to written in C (up to version 0.6, till 1,5 years ago) but has since been rewritten further developed in Pyrex, which is a Python-like language where you can use C datatypes, and which is then generated to C source and compiled - automating data type conversions up to the Python side etc. so for a Python programmer, even the internals of the engine itself are much easier to read and modify than the C++ ones (like Ogre and Crystal Space). and the API is better than the Python bindings that the C++ etc. engines provide.

it is not the most efficient nor featureful, but for someone coming from Blender, probably well worth checking out. the API/library itself is quite like Blender (the modelling side). a good way is to go through the included tutorials.

i'm using it in some image showing app tests, and have had pretty good performance with hundreds of objects moving around in the view, rotating & alpha-fading etc., no glitches.

~Toni

arangel
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Post by arangel »

Toni, thanks a lot for the tip. I just checked that out. Looks powerful.
Too bad it´s only windows and has too much code involved. For that I mean, it would be hard to manage my scene in code only... just a preference of mine, I guess.
I wish there a was a Windows port already...
Alexandre Rangel
Multimedia Designer
www.3Dzine.com.br

an-toni
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Post by an-toni »

people have ported it to Windows too (i contributed the necessary init stuff to get it running on Mac), i think there are binaries available somewhere

but yes it's a programmers tool.

so are you using Blender logic bricks heavily?

depending how the development goes with the internal engine, i guess one possibility for the future is to make exports support those too

~Toni

arangel
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Post by arangel »

I´m using many logic bricks and some custom made Python scripts.
Alexandre Rangel
Multimedia Designer
www.3Dzine.com.br

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