Euler rotations on bones

Animation tools, character animation, non linear animation

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sanders3d
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Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:54 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Euler rotations on bones

Post by sanders3d » Tue May 20, 2008 10:44 pm

Hello,

Now that 2.46 is out of the door and devs are talking about 2.50 (or next release). Could we also discuss that we animators would really really really like to have Euler rotations on bones. Right now it's just a plain pain in the butt to edit these quat curves that we have. They make no sense and are really overcomplicated to use. Even though gimbal lock doesn't appear, they are from an animators standpoint really useless to use. I personally would chose to have the gimbal problem anyday over using quats in my editor.
There is a reason why there are no quat curves in XSI, Maya, Houdini, etc.

And when you are at it, lets redo the IPO editor.

Here are my suggestions.

1.) Get Euler editing in for bones

2.) Get a axis stack re-order function (xyz, yzx, zxy, etc.)

3.) IPO editor shouldn't have to be so complicated for curve editing (selecting wise). Download XSI Foundation for a trial and test it. I think softimage, which always have had animation in focus, has the best solution for how a curve editor should be. If you could mimic that one or take that one to the next level.

4.) drop the hole 'pose' thinking for bones. As with all objects that are animateble you should be able to use everything as a 'pose'. And this especially goes for the IPO window. There is no need for the bones to have an extra section (which I guess it's there only for those damn quat curves).

Just my few cents. eulers and the IPO editor are really the only thing now that holds me back from using Blender all the time. I think these few things will help a lot of animators around the world, and also a lot of new blender animators... like me... that has many years in production with softimage and maya but are really taking a closer look at what this nifty little program can do. I'm so impressed that I'm lacking words for what this wonderful OSS software can do... let's now try and jump over the next threshold.

regards
stefan andersson

slikdigit
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Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 3:52 am
Location: Northampton, MA (US)

Post by slikdigit » Wed May 21, 2008 2:35 am

1-It would be good if rotation interpolation type (Euler/Quat) were selectable for all objects, not just bones.

1 (also) It would be great to have something like A:M where you can have internal representation/interpolation as Quats, and still edit the curves as Euler in the IPO editor.

We also really need a fix for the classic "Curve Z twist problem" where any bezier in blender that is 3d, will do a 360 twist as it crosses it's Z axis. This happens not just for curves but for BBones as well, and I believe there exists an algorithmic solution to the problem.

Stack reorder can be nice even if you don't reorder, since it takes out the mystery of "which rotation is first" by having it visible in the interface. (afaik it is always xyz in blender), but I do believe the main reason is import export (and for people who insist on using eulers in place of quats ;) )


I don't personally have problems with the IPO editor, but anything that is better is cool with me.

I don't understand item "4": do you mean bones should not have poses? or that you can do poses for other things than bones? for instance by defining an action to take place on a group of objects/IPOs instead of just an armature?

JiriH
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Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:46 pm

Post by JiriH » Wed May 21, 2008 6:38 pm

I definitely agree with all that slikdigit has said hereabove. All this issues are really important for animators or even more standard features. It would be great to have them finally in Blender.

Ghost_Train
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Location: San Diego, CA

Post by Ghost_Train » Mon May 26, 2008 12:42 am

slikdigit wrote:...
We also really need a fix for the classic "Curve Z twist problem" where any bezier in blender that is 3d, will do a 360 twist as it crosses it's Z axis. This happens not just for curves but for BBones as well, and I believe there exists an algorithmic solution to...
Oh my gosh it really is about time this one gets fixed. It's probably
the #1 most annoying problem I run into while working with Bezier
curves. I had no idea it did that for bones too, but I have run into
strange problems where they seem to go all bonkers with rolling and
rotating the wrong directions without any obvious reason. I wonder
if this is why.

N.tox
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Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: France

Post by N.tox » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:36 pm

I completly agree with the Eulers and the Z axis stuff with bezier curves, I know, this topic is old, but i thought this forum was an exception to the general forum's rule "let old topics dead", if not, tell me. :)

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