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Please fix the Armatures Speed !

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:24 pm
by Money_YaY!
I know it is an old problem . But that is the very reason for the issue at hand. It has gone to far to long.

I know that it is some sort of draw rate that is going on in the code. But I don't know how to fix it. Somebody does. And Ton seems to just want to play with the interface. But that will help in attracting coders a bit.

Somebody has to fix it though . Other wise Blender will still be looked at as a meek tool.

Please fix the Armature speed ! Just one rig with 5 bones makes it nonuseable.

Please fix the Armature speed !

^~^

Re: Please fix the Armatures Speed !

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:19 am
by theeth
Money_YaY! wrote:Just one rig with 5 bones makes it nonuseable.
you really don't know what you're talking about, and this shows.

Martin

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:52 am
by Mats78
Sorry but I've never experienced any problems with the speed. A rig with as many bones as I like, say 40 or 50, works fine. So really, take a step backwards and check everything else again - you've clearly got some other troubles.

-Mats

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:29 pm
by Money_YaY!
Well . I have come to the conclusion that it is a Mac OSX problem. As I test it on G4's and it does the same slowdown.

Please forgive my rash brash additude. I mean no harm. Just want to get what everybody has in terms of Blender.

I have spent countless hours trying to make it faster. But when I create the rig and IK chain it it slows down dramaticly.

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:30 pm
by Pablosbrain
There is an issue with the armatures being calculated on every frame not just when they need to be. Even if an object is not moving they are calculated. But as was stated in the blender_funboard just the other day by Ton... "... the entire system has to be re-assebled. Its a major task, and we only can wait for someone to do it...". So.. If anyone is up to the task. Please take a look. Otherwise... Just a kind reminder.. Search before you post! :)

<edit> by the way.. .I'm on windowsXP and I can see the slowdown on a very fast system with just a few rigged characters in a scene. Mess with the IK Constraints iterations and also put unused rigs/characters on different layers so you can hide them easily while working on a different one.

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:01 pm
by Monkeyboi
I agree that this is a BIG problem in Blender. One of the very biggest probems. I'm inthe middle of a character animation which I have now stopped working on because Blender keeps clogging up, even though I use IK with bones. I'm using Windows2000.

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 12:55 pm
by soletread
Just some work arounds I have done:

These are pretty obvious but I will state them anyway.

If you going to be doing character animation in Blender, dont even consider it unless you are doing SubSurf modelling. My cartoon characters have separate mesh items of no more than 300 vertices each. And their armatures are fast.

Running a 550 PIII they glide man.

If you have complex hand bones with a grab per finger bone. Take out all the grabs. Rather pose the hand by rotating the finger bone itself. I had a major speed increase doing this.

Where possible parent a mesh to a single bone only and not the armature. (Meshes that need to move and not bend) This is one of the reasons my characters aren't single meshes. A belt buckle for example. So you end up having very few vertex groups in total.

Granted, its not the ideal, but it works to a degree.


Cheers

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:06 pm
by Monkeyboi
Yes, you are right soletread, mybe I should not use Ik for the fingers, but I don't really feel like doing it..


If the speed of the IK is improved I think we wil see a huge increase of impressive content appearing. Personally I think my animation looks great (what I have done so far). I wish I could complete it! Please improve IK speeds!!

PLEASE! I BEG YOU!!

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:51 pm
by theeth
Just lower the iteration number, it's not that hard to do, is it?

Martin

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:50 am
by matt_e
Monkeyboi wrote:Yes, you are right soletread, mybe I should not use Ik for the fingers, but I don't really feel like doing it..
I've alwasy found IK to be really annoying to use with fingers. What I did recently with fingers, is keep them as FK, but rig them with action constraints. Eg. an action for closed fist, an action for pointing finger, an action for open palm, etc. I then assigned these actions to the rotations of a 'controller' bone, so all I had to do, for the most common poses (closed/open fist) was just rotate a single bone floating out in space. Much easier to keyframe too. For any further control, I just went in and tweaked the individual bones' rotations and keyframed them.

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 12:17 pm
by beatabix
broken: are action constraints fixed yet?

i seem to recall there was some sort of global / local problem with them.

later
BEAT

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:26 pm
by ilac
broken wrote:
Monkeyboi wrote:Yes, you are right soletread, mybe I should not use Ik for the fingers, but I don't really feel like doing it..
I've alwasy found IK to be really annoying to use with fingers. What I did recently with fingers, is keep them as FK, but rig them with action constraints. Eg. an action for closed fist, an action for pointing finger, an action for open palm, etc. I then assigned these actions to the rotations of a 'controller' bone, so all I had to do, for the most common poses (closed/open fist) was just rotate a single bone floating out in space. Much easier to keyframe too. For any further control, I just went in and tweaked the individual bones' rotations and keyframed them.
Why not use the NLA?! :?

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:49 am
by matt_e
beatabix wrote:broken: are action constraints fixed yet?

i seem to recall there was some sort of global / local problem with them.
I don't know - I didn't even know there was a problem with them. All I know is that they worked well for me when i was working with them over the last 2~3 weeks :)

Ilac:
For those sorts of small things, I find the NLA too messy. It's much nicer to just rotate the controller bone to the position I want (the amount that the hand is closed) and then just keyframe the controller bone. It gives instant feedback within the 3D view, and it's easy to manipulate the timing etc. within the action window, with the rest of the bones. Its also much harder in the NLA to blend just partially - i.e. if I just wanted the hand in between completely flat, and a closed fist.

Here's a quick .blend file I found in my pile of tests - may help clarify what I mean: http://reblended.com/www/broken/etc/act ... .blend.zip

cheers

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:55 am
by theeth
There's indeed a bug with Action constraint. I haven't really have the time to look into it, especially since its code is really obscure IMHO compared to the other constraints, but I'll get around to solving it one day.

Martin

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:12 am
by soletread
An interesting point just quick regarding bones and deformation:

The official 2.3 release is Slower in terms of Armature deformations than your build Theeth.

At first I thought I was imagining things but now I am convinced. I just dropped your exe over the official one and its much faster.

Are you using a different compiler?