bf-blender / Windows (2004/10/01)

User-contributed CVS development builds. Please test and give feedback!

Moderators: jesterKing, stiv

malCanDo
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:44 pm
Location: Ireland
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Post by malCanDo »

> There is only one guy working on the gameengine...

Kester is doing an excellent job on the game engine, it's amazing that one person managed to do all the work of re-implementing it back into the main program, along with new additions etc.

With the physics system about to get a new focus ( with soft bodies ), it would be a shame to see two completely different rigid body solutions implemented, one for the rendering animation system and one for the real time game engine, so hopefully some of the new physics guys will be able to spare some hours and give Kester some assistance with the physics.

I'm assuming that the animation system would be using ODE in pretty much the same way as the game engine, albiet at a much higher step rate for accuracy etc, with the resulting object transforms fed back into the keyframed animation.

I've created a quick blender file with a few monkey heads falling into 3 different things ( ground, bucket, sloping platforms ).

http://www.candointeractive.com/blender ... sics.blend

If the physics engine was updated enough to ensure that...

a) the result was what the user would expect
b) the result was the same every time ( deterministic ), otherwise it would drive people who were doing key-framed animations bonkers!
c) didn't have the CPU slowdowns that seem to occur when the objects inter-penetrate too much

... it would be in an ideal state for use in both games and animations.


Mal
Last edited by malCanDo on Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jesterKing
Site Admin
Posts: 207
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 12:48 pm
Location: Finland

Post by jesterKing »

malCanDo wrote:...I'm assuming that the animation system would be using ODE in pretty much the same way as the game engine...
Currently the gameengine doesn't use ODE, but only Solid (and MoTo)

/Nathan

malCanDo
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:44 pm
Location: Ireland
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Post by malCanDo »

Hi JesterKing,

> Solid (and MoTo)

So for Collision detection, Solid is used, and for the dynamics, Moto is used?

I assume that SUMO refers to this combination then?

What ever happened to the ODE integration, to replace the Moto dynamics? With all the progress on ODE ( recently up to 0.5 ), and it's selection for use on SoftImage XSI, a heavyweight industry modelling package, it would seem like ODE is the ideal choice for Blender as it has already proven its capabilities.

Moto is a pretty good dynamics engine, but there are some issues with it. ODE has a lot of developers updating and working with it purely as a physics solution.

Ideally you'd be able to choose both the collision and dynamics libraries to be used, if a generic physics interface were in place ( eg ODE has some collision detection capabilities also ).

kakapo
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:32 pm

Post by kakapo »

ODE isn't really robust -> explosions, jittering, spongyness,... i think most projects that use it commercially have some experts who did some serious (closed source) modifications to make it really useable.

for non-realtime stuff it should be good enough though because the user can experiment (even if it is somewhat frustrating) until the simulation does what he want and then bake it. :)

Dani
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 8:35 pm

Post by Dani »

hum... creasing two parallel edges of a face (in a cube) in edge select mode doesn't work on the only selected edges but on the four edges of the face...

there are some drawing problems, like contour drawing that do not show all the time... the solid drawing overlaps the contour.

and still the same selection problems as in the previous build:

http://www.blender.org/modules.php?op=m ... pic&t=4677

Dani

bleen
Posts: 0
Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 1:58 am

Post by bleen »

great build!!!!

i noticed that there are some problems with the new selection, dunno if that was mentioned, but i´ll try to explain...

when zbuffer option is selected in edit mode it isn´t abled to select vertexloops via lmb+alt.

another "problem" i noticed is that when you subdivide a edge of a f-gon in vertice/edge selection mode and switch to face seltion mode some faces won´t be selected. when you switch between edit mode and object mode, after that, you´ll be able to select all of the faces! i think there´s a ploblem with the update of the drawing.
(picture: plane (subdivide twice, triangulated a quad and made f-gon), selected edge of the f-gon (switched to edge selection mode), subdivided edge, switched to face selection mode, try to select the "marked" face!)

http://www.genosite.net.tc/probs/selection_problem.png

when circle-selection is active, there is a drawing-bug of the circle. it does my duplicates at the edge of the window (3d view)

http://www.genosite.net.tc/probs/drawin ... ection.png

i like the f-gon feature, but a feature like to make faces make co-planar is for this function really needed.
what´s going on with the "quit menu" (cancel, confirm)?

a little request: what´s about the cool tuhopuu features like "edge select cut" and the "edge/vertexloop remove" (crtl+v). this will be very handy. any chance to port it to the next bf-blender release?

_____
bleen

PaicCitron
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:12 am

Post by PaicCitron »

Hi, so much new features it's almost like in a dream ^^

Well, I don't know if it's the correct place to report bugs (the only place I know seems to be for the official builds) so forgive me if it's not.

The bug i've found is about Vertex Groups selection in UV Face Select mode. Here are the steps to recreate it :
1) create a mesh, enter edit mode and select some faces
2) create a vertex group and assign the selected faces to it
3) switch to UV Face Select mode, then press tab
4) use the Select button in Vertex Groups to select your faces
5) press tab again and ... tadaaa the selection has disapeared ...

The funny thing is that if in step 4) you make 2 "Select Swap" then it works (in step 5 you have the faces selected -__-)

.:: Paic Citron ::.

Kenden
Posts: 0
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:11 pm

Post by Kenden »

Thanks for the build coders and gabio!:)

Here are a few problems I found that I am not sure have been reported already.

Selection problems:

* selected Vertexes in vertex-edit mode that don't belong to a face will lose their selection if going to face-edit mode and then back to vertex-edit mode.
- In vertex-edit mode, select 3 points belonging to a face and two others points not belonging to a face,
- switch to face-edit mode:
--> the face is selected.
- Switch to vertex-edit mode:
--> the 3 points belonging to the face are selected but not the two others.

* A new edge created in vertex-edit mode is not selected when switching to edge-edit mode:
- Select two not-connected vertexes in vertex-edit mode.
- Press F to create an Edge.
--> The edge is created and the two vertexes selected.
- Switch to edge-edit mode:
--> The edge is not selected.

* A new face created in vertex-edit or edge-edit mode is not selected when switching to face-edit mode.
- Create a face in vertex-edit mode or edge-edit mode,
--> the vertexes or edge of the newly created face are selected,
- switch to face-edit mode:
--> the face is not selected.
Note: if we create the face in vertex-edit mode and switch to edge-edit mode, the edges of the face will be selected (weird).


Fgon problems:

* Faces belonging to a Fgon won't be selectable after the Fgon has been cleared (same bug report as bleen I think):
- in face-edit mode, select two faces, press F and choose 'Make Fgon',
--> a new Fgon is created and selected.
- press F again and choose 'Clear Fgon':
--> the Fgon is cleared and the two faces selected.
- Press akey to unselect them,
- Try to select one of the faces again: it is not possible.
Note: one face cannot be selected, but the two of them, yes. Select the two faces (RMB on a face, Shift-RMB on the other), it will work (weird).

* If two selected triangle-faces have an edge in common, pressing F won't create a Fgon but a new invisible face
- In face-edit mode, select two triangle-face that have an edge in common
- Press F:
--> it is not a Fgon of the two faces that is created but a new face of 4 vertexes.


Undo problem:

The global undo undoes changes made in edit mode:
- Create a cube,
- Move the cube,
- Enter Edit mode,
- move a vertex of the cube,
- exit edit mode.
- press Ctrl-Z:
--> the vertex moves back.
It is weird as ctrl-Z works in Edit-mode as well, but cannot undo changes made in object mode.


UI request:

Ctrl-Tab displays a menu to switch between vertex-edit, edge-edit and face edit.
It would be much faster if there was no menu, and if the select mode was just changing to the next one:
- we are in vertex-edit mode,
- Press ctrl-tab:
--> we are now in edge-edit mode,
- Press ctrl-tab:
--> we are now in face-edit mode,
- Press ctrl-tab:
--> we are now in vertex-edit mode.
Last edited by Kenden on Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

_Ph_
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:07 pm

Post by _Ph_ »

I noticed that the redraw of the 3d view (object in edit mode and in subdivision surface),
is (very) slower since the builds has the tool 'hook'.
Get a mesh with about 6000 vertex to notice the difference.
:(

Dani
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2002 8:35 pm

Post by Dani »

hum... I'm still convinced that a tree in one selection mode is completely possible... no switching between modes...

Dani

Bellorum
Posts: 0
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:27 pm

Post by Bellorum »

Ctrl-Tab displays a menu to switch between vertex-edit, edge-edit and face edit.
It would be much faster if there was no menu, and if the select mode was just changing to the next one:
- we are in vertex-edit mode,
- Press ctrl-tab:
--> we are now in edge-edit mode,
- Press ctrl-tab:
--> we are now in face-edit mode,
- Press ctrl-tab:
--> we are now in vertex-edit mode.
I fail to see how this would be much faster. I do feel though that instead of TAB followed by CTRL+TAB, we should have the ability to chose selection mode while going into editmode, i.e from objectmode - TAB to enter last used selectionmode, and CTRL+TAB to select new one, both in objectmode aswell as editmode.
There's no such thing as democracy. There's only the tyranny of one, and the tyranny of many.

Kenden
Posts: 0
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:11 pm

Post by Kenden »

Bellorum wrote:
Ctrl-Tab displays a menu to switch between vertex-edit, edge-edit and face edit.
It would be much faster if there was no menu, and if the select mode was just changing to the next one:
- we are in vertex-edit mode,
- Press ctrl-tab:
--> we are now in edge-edit mode,
- Press ctrl-tab:
--> we are now in face-edit mode,
- Press ctrl-tab:
--> we are now in vertex-edit mode.
I fail to see how this would be much faster. I do feel though that instead of TAB followed by CTRL+TAB, we should have the ability to chose selection mode while going into editmode, i.e from objectmode - TAB to enter last used selectionmode, and CTRL+TAB to select new one, both in objectmode aswell as editmode.
Actually, I had forgotten about another Blender feature: you can use numbers to select an item in a menu, so:
- Ctrl-Tab then press 1 for vertex-edit mode,
- Ctrl-Tab then press 2 for edge-edit mode,
- Ctrl-Tab then press 3 for face-edit mode.

Sorry then, it is fast enough for me.
(Instead I propose to have the shortcuts in the menu :) !)

Kenden
Posts: 0
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:11 pm

Post by Kenden »

Not really a problem but it looks strange anyway:

In edit mode, in solid-display mode and with backbuffer-display turned off, the function "F9 > Mesh Tools 1 > Draw faces" doesn't highlight the selected faces that are in the back of the mesh.

This is weird as "F9 > Mesh Tools 1 > Draw Edges" does highlight the edges in the back.

If this gets solved the wireframe-display and the solid-display will look very (too much?) similar... It might be easier to turn on the backbuffer-display in solid-display mode without proposing the option to turn it off.

poutsa
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:49 pm
Location: Munich (Germany)

bug report

Post by poutsa »

bug report:
If a mesh have a Wave Fx and animated location when you press K for draw Keys in 3D Window then the Wave Fx dosnt work during the Animation! Sorry for my English...!

Ciao Vassilios :cry: [/code][/url][/b]

poutsa
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:49 pm
Location: Munich (Germany)

Bug Report

Post by poutsa »

Bug Report:
-Add a Mesh Plane then enter in Edit mode and select all the vertices and press W (special menu) and Choose Subdivide 3 or 4 Times. Then Select a Material- Texture for this subd Plane choose Voronoi or Marble or something else...then Add a Wave FX for this Plane if you Render this Plane you see the Rendering is not O.K correct!!!


Ciao

Vassilios :cry:

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