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bf-blender / Official Windows 2.36 RC2 available

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:02 am
by aphex
2.36 RC2 for Windows is available here: http://download.blender.org/demo/test/b ... indows.zip

Numerous bug fixes, plus Normal Mapping! (http://www.blender3d.org/cms/Changes_si ... 384.0.html)

Keep the reports coming!

-aphex

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:24 am
by gabio
I really don't aprove the place where he placed the normal button. Why place it in the texture button if it's at the same level as the other mode (col,nor,spec)?
For me it's not a problem external but for the external users(like from 3ds and all) this look like silly. Having to run all around the interace to activate the same functions. I don't know if a rework of the the button disposition is planned for the ui rework( I didn't saw it anywhere on the wiki) But i think all the buttons should remain at the same place at least.

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:24 pm
by oyster
I can not find a proxy to approach to the bug-tracks, so I have to post the bugs report here. Hope somebody could confirm and add them to the bug-tracks.

bug on Weighted creases for subdivision surfaces

The following pic comes from the official manul. I always change the crease weight in the "transform properties" menu.

bug1:
Add a cube. After selecting all the edges and setting the creases weight=1, I select the 2 edges at the same time like the pic says, and set weight value=0, the other 2 edges' weight are set to 0 automatically, so I get a bell-like-mesh other than that in the pic.
BUT if I select and set the 2 edges one by one, I get the correct mesh like the pic says.

bug2:
And I find it is a waste of time to do:
1. add a cube
2. select only 2 edges and set the weight=1
3. I change my idea and want to set all edges with weight=1, so I select all, this time, the 'median crease' is shown as 0.333
4. I input 1, but it changes to 0.778 after I press Enter
5. I input 1, but it changes to 0.926 after I press Enter
6. I input 1, but it changes to 0.975 after I press Enter
7. I input 1, but it changes to 0.992 after I press Enter
8. I input 1, but it changes to 0.997 after I press Enter
7. I input 1, but it changes to 0.999 after I press Enter
7. I input 1, whoa, it changes to 1 at last.

bug3:
It is not a bug but an uniformity. I cannot input number for the crease weight as I do for rotating/sizing without "transform properties" menu.

Image

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:03 pm
by lemmy
Oyster, why don't you be helpful and actually post it in the bug tracker? :wink:

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:58 pm
by lusque
Hi, I tried to use a Doom3 normalmap with blender and found the tests disappointing, so I made a comparison between Blender and Doom3 normal maps in Photoshop with this result:

Image

As you can see there are some differences:
1: the green channel is inverted, i.e. where blender says white doom3 says black (that is causing major errors in rendering :cry: )
2: the blender blue channel is full range (0-255) where doom is half range (128-255) (in renderings is barely noticeable :) )

After that a question popped through my head:
Is there a standard way of storing normal data into image maps?
And if there is a standard, will Blender follow it?

And more important (from my point of view):
If I want to share a normal map between Blender and another program, or if I want to use a normal map downloaded from the internet, will I be forced to color-correct the channels in photoshop before I can actually use it? :?

Can someone of the developers give me a answer? I think it is a question that the community is intersted in.

PS: If I seemed harsh or confused is just my poor english, sorry

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:40 am
by oyster
lemmy wrote:Oyster, why don't you be helpful and actually post it in the bug tracker? :wink:
As I have mentioned, I browse a foreign website thru proxy, but I can not find a proxy to approach to the bug-tracks.

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:23 am
by wavk
I got confused by the 'Changes since last version' page about normal mapping. There's a picture titled 'Same relief rendered with ambient occlusion'. That got my hopes high on thinking the normal maps would work with ambient occlusion, which I would be very cool. But as I found out, it doesn't work... It's just a picture to show how you could make a colour map together with a normal map to get a cool result with good depth in it.

Maybe make that a bit more clear before releasing, it might get a lot of people confused.

That said, normal maps rule! It makes you realize how limiting bump maps really are. great stuff.

I also found another bug with local view, submitted it to the tracker.

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:58 pm
by dettty
Hi all,

I found out the same about normal maps. Standard normal maps are not working. Also to create normal maps with blender you have to adjust the channels later in Photoshop. Otherwise they can not be used with other applications. Please change Blender to a common way of using normal maps.
The output of Blenders new Bump/Normal maps are amazing!!
Thanks

Dettty :D

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:29 pm
by ton
EDGE SELECT / CREASES

Bug 1: fixed, this wasn't yet adapted for the new edge select mode
Bug 2: fixed too. One button trying to move a medium range that's being clipped (0-1) aint simple. Works nice now.
Bug 3: we're working on a much better transform system. Needs cleanup.

Please find out how to get access to our tracker... maybe via work, school or friends, whatever. Reports here are not guarenteed to be handled!

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:40 pm
by ton
NORMAL MAPS


I've been checking on normal maps from all kinds of resources, and unfortunately no clear standard exists. The only convention seems to be to have Red for X, Green for Y and Blue for Z.

Blender just maps this logical.. meaning red and green values of -1.0 to 1.0 go to color 0-255. Why flip that for green?
Maybe it depends on left or righthanded coordinate systems...

Also, mapping the Z values to only blue colors 128-255 gives a loss of resolution. No idea why Doom does it.

http://members.shaw.ca/jimht03/normal.html

The link above, also the top link Google gives for normal maps, I've copied his method for Blender. His maps render fine in Blender, with exception for the blue component, which is easy to correct however.

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:46 pm
by Gimble
Much thanks for all the hard work and new features.

I've tried to post at the bug tracker, but I can't get in no matter what I do, so... :

Minor bug:

After doing an edge select using Alt_B (blue line selection), the vertice count in the Info window header is not updated.

WinXP
Blender 2.36 RC2
ATI video card

ATI problem

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:40 pm
by mmoadude
I still have the ATI Radeon graphics card slow-down on file selection, b-select, and rendering. I can't seem to post this in the bugs page, so could somebody do it for me?!?
Thanks

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:52 pm
by lusque
ton wrote:I've been checking on normal maps from all kinds of resources, and unfortunately no clear standard exists. The only convention seems to be to have Red for X, Green for Y and Blue for Z.
Well, I'll try to be less lazy and do my photoshopping then :). Anyway I suggest to put a clear explanation of this in the documentation when 2.36 will be released.

Thank you, and big thanks to all the developers :D, amazing work, as always :shock: :shock: :shock:

PS: It is not my purpose to steal doom3 maps :wink:, they're just so beautiful... :roll:

Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:10 pm
by theeth
ton wrote:Maybe it depends on left or righthanded coordinate systems...
DirectX is using a lefthanded coordinates system (AFAIK), so that might very well be the cause.

Martin

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:05 am
by yeonil
Maybe it will be wise to make some buttons allowing you to flip the colors of the normal map to fit some weird standards? It will make Blender more self-supporting.


Yeonil