bf-blender / Windows & Linux (2005/05/11)

User-contributed CVS development builds. Please test and give feedback!

Moderators: jesterKing, stiv

Trepido
Posts: 0
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 9:14 am

Post by Trepido » Fri May 20, 2005 7:52 am

I am still waiting for a logical explanation as to why cycling sucks...
Cycling with one key may be uncoventional, but open source development does not always have to meet convention. It is there to also be innovative
YEAH!

Bellorum
Posts: 0
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:27 pm

Post by Bellorum » Fri May 20, 2005 9:17 am

gaiamuse wrote: First of all thank you for your feedback. It is much appreciated.
I am still waiting for a logical explanation as to why cycling sucks. I think this is the crux to the debate. I have tried to provide a logical explanation as to why cycling with one key for several visual options is better than a three key combination for individual options, ie, there is less keystrokes involved, it is easier to manipulate, and less prone to errors.

Cycling with one key may be uncoventional, but open source development does not always have to meet convention. It is there to also be innovative. I am a bit concern that unconventional ideas that may be logical and efficient are thrown out do to "conventional" perceptions. It may be that the future development of Blender could require the use of cycling with one key for visual options as a viable alternative or solution. Who knows, maybe some of the big commercial apps might considerate it an option.

About the '/' key:
I still prefer to use the Ctl key to cycle as I would not want to have other users with different keyboards have to press two or more keys to cycle with '/' key. It defeats the purpose of using one key to cycle. Though some people think the CTL key should not be used because it is commonly used, it for that very reason that the CTL key could be used. Users are already familier with it. Also, the '/' is used quite a bit, so I don't think the reason is valid enough to not use the CTL key because it is often used. Most keys are used on the keyboard. It's a matter of finding one that is easily accessible for the majority of different keyboards. CTL is such a key.

About CTL + Spacebar:

I really like this option and hope it doesn't change for this release. The hand is already positioned to use CTL, SHIFT, ALT etc so it is easily manipulated. The menu provides all the options and is very useful even working with the icons, especially for turning all the widgets on at once.

gaiamuse
Cycling sucks because:

1. It is not a direct shortcut, and therefor not optimal.
2, It is prone to error - Miss your selection, and you have to cycle through them all again.
3. It doesn't work instinctively - when you are to select a mode, you have to first consider what mode you're in, and then calculate the number of keypresses, or go through them visually and slowly. Some may be able to do this faster, doesn't mean everyone will.

I'm not a big fan of the new direct shortcuts, having to press three keys is not optimal workflow for such an important feature. but ctrl+spacebar works fine for me. My hands are always on ctrl, space and the mouse. All choices are presented to me at the same time, and all at a constant distance from origin. I hardly ever need to read the actual text.
There's no such thing as democracy. There's only the tyranny of one, and the tyranny of many.

gaiamuse
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 2:25 am

Post by gaiamuse » Fri May 20, 2005 11:06 am

Bellorum wrote:
gaiamuse wrote: First of all thank you for your feedback. It is much appreciated.
I am still waiting for a logical explanation as to why cycling sucks. I think this is the crux to the debate. I have tried to provide a logical explanation as to why cycling with one key for several visual options is better than a three key combination for individual options, ie, there is less keystrokes involved, it is easier to manipulate, and less prone to errors.

Cycling with one key may be uncoventional, but open source development does not always have to meet convention. It is there to also be innovative. I am a bit concern that unconventional ideas that may be logical and efficient are thrown out do to "conventional" perceptions. It may be that the future development of Blender could require the use of cycling with one key for visual options as a viable alternative or solution. Who knows, maybe some of the big commercial apps might considerate it an option.

About the '/' key:
I still prefer to use the Ctl key to cycle as I would not want to have other users with different keyboards have to press two or more keys to cycle with '/' key. It defeats the purpose of using one key to cycle. Though some people think the CTL key should not be used because it is commonly used, it for that very reason that the CTL key could be used. Users are already familier with it. Also, the '/' is used quite a bit, so I don't think the reason is valid enough to not use the CTL key because it is often used. Most keys are used on the keyboard. It's a matter of finding one that is easily accessible for the majority of different keyboards. CTL is such a key.

About CTL + Spacebar:

I really like this option and hope it doesn't change for this release. The hand is already positioned to use CTL, SHIFT, ALT etc so it is easily manipulated. The menu provides all the options and is very useful even working with the icons, especially for turning all the widgets on at once.

gaiamuse
Cycling sucks because:

1. It is not a direct shortcut, and therefor not optimal.
2, It is prone to error - Miss your selection, and you have to cycle through them all again.
3. It doesn't work instinctively - when you are to select a mode, you have to first consider what mode you're in, and then calculate the number of keypresses, or go through them visually and slowly. Some may be able to do this faster, doesn't mean everyone will.

I'm not a big fan of the new direct shortcuts, having to press three keys is not optimal workflow for such an important feature. but ctrl+spacebar works fine for me. My hands are always on ctrl, space and the mouse. All choices are presented to me at the same time, and all at a constant distance from origin. I hardly ever need to read the actual text.
Thank you for giving your reasons for the cycle issue, though I sense this issue may continue on at a later time. I appreciate being able to know the reasons why other people consider certain features useful or not useful. It does seem that others are seeing that the three keys is not optimal workflow. Also, I am glad you find the CTL + Spacebar works for you.

We are now in B-con 4 and am waiting for the windows build. Probably be best for now to test for bugs and have some more play with the new features. Yeah!

gaiamuse

joeri
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:41 pm
Contact:

Post by joeri » Fri May 20, 2005 11:30 am

gaiamuse wrote:...
It does seem that others are seeing that the three keys is not optimal workflow.
I think the most optimal is 1 key for 1 tool (preferable with the toolname on the key). But the keyboard does not have enough keys to do that.

RRuiz
Posts: 0
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:08 am

Post by RRuiz » Fri May 20, 2005 2:28 pm

Maybe I'm pushing my luck but It's been a while since I put this quiestion and I didn't recive any comentaries . Maybe I did get betwen 2 heavy bugs or conflicts so my little question it did get lost. anyway I will re-posted. just in case. Sorry but this is also importan to me for heair modeling and some sort of clouth
RRuiz wrote:Excellent build. I been folowing the new sb options and only I have one quiestion, how can I convert the result of a SB calculation or baking to a real mesh? I will love to have something like an Alt+C that when done, copy the result to a new mesh even pass the baking information to vertex animation on the mesh. The bake is greate but I think is not enough

For example I will like to create a curtain over a window with some wing afectig it from the outside, rigth now I have to model the curtain bended then aply all the efects to the animation an let the magic beging . Insted I want to create a plain with subdivision and weights, aply the sb and the result will be my begining object and then put every thing else.

Thank you

Un Saludo
Thank you

Post Reply