Muscle system for blender

Compiling, libraries, modules, coding guidelines and porting

Moderators: jesterKing, stiv

jesterKing
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Post by jesterKing » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:43 pm

handydan wrote:p.s. sorry for relying so much on the blender community instead of doing all my own research, but I hope you can understand my "need" to get it done quickly.
This is how you should do it anyway ;) Join #blendercoders at chat.freenode.org if you can - coders are most active there.

/Nathan

handydan
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Post by handydan » Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:47 pm

I would go onto to blendercoders, but I can't get onto a computer with irc software

Dan

jesterKing
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Post by jesterKing » Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:11 pm

handydan wrote:I would go onto to blendercoders, but I can't get onto a computer with irc software

Dan
Are you not allowed to install software yourself? If you are, you might consider getting X-Chat (there are entirely free builds available that work great and are reliable).

/Nathan

handydan
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Post by handydan » Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:20 pm

no, I'm not allowed to install software, because its not mine. Mine died and because it had linux on its difficult to get files off, but it is in the process of being fixed.

Dan

jesterKing
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Post by jesterKing » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:17 pm

Too bad you have no possibility of joining yet. I hope you can manage at some point. Anyway, I have approved your project at our projects site. I hope you can get a patch working soon. I suggest you then submit it to bf-committers@blender.org (remember to subscribe). If people like it, and you manage to keep it up-to-date, I'm sure there is a possibility of getting a branch within the blender tree. Anyway, if you need help with setting up the project, just shout.

/Nathan

handydan
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Post by handydan » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:37 pm

I will definitely try to get a working patch soon, and I've added a short design document to the project. If anybody wants to read it you can find it within in the project here - http://projects.blender.org/projects/musclesim/.

Thanks for all your help.

Dan

edit: I've been modifying the latest svn version when I've been coding. how should I upload what I've done onto the svn repo I've got with the project? should I generate a patch and base it on 2.45 or commit changes to it as the svn version changes?

Azrael
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Post by Azrael » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:50 pm

Image

This is an idea on how I thought it would look.

What are you going to do for areas like abdominals? are we able to move the Head or Bulge up/down the muscle? Or even add 2 bulges for one muscle?

handydan
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Post by handydan » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:18 pm

Bulges are controlled by an arbitrary number of defined cross-sections, so yes you can have more than one bulge, and also you can change the centre of the change in radius and offset of any of the cross-sections, so abdomen muscle are definitely possible too. I like the colour coded muscle idea, but to be honest aesthetics aren't on top of my list at the moment.

Dan

Azrael
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Controllers and Visual Feedback

Post by Azrael » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:39 pm

Image

Here is something I put together illustrating how I thought it would be nice to modify the bulge.

handydan
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Post by handydan » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:44 pm

yeah, that looks quite impressive, and that's kind of like the way I'm implementing it, except that the controller can only be perpendicular to the central line along the muscle, (or bezier line hopefully soon).

I'm planning to get what I've done so far onto a svn branch soon, if you can code you may be interested to see what I've done so far.

Dan

toastbusters
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Post by toastbusters » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:16 am

Hey,

I'm very glad to see a muscle system being built for blender. My method for doing muscle sims in blender as of now is by using a ridiculous amount of shape keys, and in addition to taking forever to set up, it also leads to huge .blend files.

Here is what I would love to see in a muscle system setup:

-Make the skin slide over the muscles, in much the same way flesh does in real life. Pull back the sleeve on your shirt and move your arm around. See the deformations in your shoulder?
-Some way to handle fatty tissue, and define how fatty each area is.
-Some way of addressing bones, and their affect on the skin. Not armature bones, but real bones; such as the shoulder blades, joints, etc.
-Some way of handling bounciness on sudden stops or impact. I handle this now using yet more shape keys, but it would be nice to have it somehow be part of the muscle system. (less important, because this effect is already pretty easy to achieve manually with shape keys)
-Areas that are not affected by the muscle system, such as the face; unless it can be demonstrated that such a system would yield better results or save time. :)

It wouldn't bother me too much to spend a great deal of time setting up the rig, it already takes me quite some time to set up each character. What I'm really after is a method that will yield much better results than what I'm getting now, and make everything as automatic as possible. Are the features on my list possible under the muscle system you're planning, especially the first one? (sliding skin)
Witty Comment

handydan
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Post by handydan » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:07 pm

If everything goes to plan then, the 2nd and 3rd should be possible soonest but the 1st and 4th will take a little longer because of collision detection. Everything you've asked about should be possible with this implementation idea.

Simulating in this way should be quicker than using shape keys and definitely use less memory, but there's still a long way to go until a remotely usable build (as in one that simulates muscles at all).

Dan

gianmichele
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Post by gianmichele » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:16 pm

I'm wondering how this is going to perform on a real geometry. Muscle system are such a huge thing and really heavy to fine tune.

It's a really interesting project and i can't wait to see what expert riggers can do with it.

I also have a creture modeled and soon animating that will suit for a test :D

Gianmichele

blaize
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Post by blaize » Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:12 pm

not sure if it's any use, but there's an open-source muscle system for maya called cgmuscle: http://www.cgmuscle.com/news.php

might be worth looking into ?
If the source is of no use to you, then the reference section on their site surely will be, it may also help you with the design process. stuff like how they create/attach muscles and such
hope your making progress :D

handydan
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Post by handydan » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:27 pm

Thank you very much. Looking through the source and watching one of their demonstration videos, its surprising how close my implementation is to theirs and really interesting to see where it differs.

Progress is good, no major issues at the minute. Once I've got a rudimentary gui written, I'll release a preliminary patch so ppl can test to see if the interface feels natural and give suggestions to where it needs work.

Dan

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