Why Python and not Java?

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kurzog
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Why Python and not Java?

Post by kurzog »

I'm not looking for trouble :wink:, but I have to ask the question : why Python vs Java :?:

elam
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Post by elam »

this is a silly question to ask, imo.

all languages have advantages and disadvantages.
One obvious disadvantage is the extra overhead Java requires. java = bloat.

besides, python has been w/blender since it's inception, i think. feel free to code in a java api, though.

elam

kurzog
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Post by kurzog »

elam wrote:this is a silly question to ask, imo.

all languages have advantages and disadvantages.
One obvious disadvantage is the extra overhead Java requires. java = bloat.

besides, python has been w/blender since it's inception, i think. feel free to code in a java api, though.

elam
Funny, I thought it was a technical question directed at the creators of Blender (or someone 'in-the-know') who could explain to me what the advantages of choosing Python vs Java, i.e. 'It's easier to do dynamic scripting with Python, or Java isn't scriptable, or even 'Just Because the sky was blue, and my ex-girl-friend was a Java programmer'.

I'll try to be more verbose and less silly in the future.. :wink:

SirDude
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Post by SirDude »

The target language needed to be the following:
Easy for non programmers to read, modify working scripts.
easy to learn.
and small. There are lots of things they could have used.
The best fit for the people making the decissions was python.
(I can't stand it personally as a language but hey I wasn't the ones making the choice and even though I don't like the language I would say they did a good job at picking)

kurzog
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Post by kurzog »

Thanks!

thorax
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Post by thorax »

Well I haven't programmed in it enough to know whether I like it, but I did like the ambiguity in the programming paradigm.. For instance it supports, from what I recall, list based programming (LISP), lambda functions (functions that generate functions from functions), Objects,
and forces programmers to indent their code as there is no scope syntax (identation is the scoping method).. Also it doesn't require the huge hiearchy that you need in order to use Java.. I don't believe python suffers from the same growing pains as Java, as python doesn't seem to be developed to leverage Sun servers (Pffttttt!! 8^P). Note early on SUN said that programs written in java are portable across platforms,
this is true if youa re using the same java class tree.. If you programmed a program in Java 1.1, you have to be very careful not to use classes that were deprecated in 1.2, as the program may not work with 1.3 and 1.4.. There is still a number of developers stuck on upgrading to 1.4 right now.
But its hard to know what Sun will develop next and deprecate later.

Some one-liners I obtained from the net on java, I was really
just looking for a quote from Alan Kay on Java, but these are quite humorous too.. Actually I like Java, if Sun would only stop messing with it and open source and GNU license the development it would be more stable.. :

Lisp has all the visual appeal of oatmeal with fingernail clippings mixed in. (((Larry Wall)))

If Java had true garbage collection, most programs would delete themselves upon execution. (Robert Sewell)

I fear the the new object-oriented systems may suffer the fate of LISP, in that they can do many things, but the complexity of the class hierarchies may cause them to collapse under their own weight. (Bill Joy)

Anybody who thinks a little 9,000-line program [Java] that's distributed free and can be cloned by anyone is going to affect anything we do at Microsoft has his head screwed on wrong. (Bill Gates)

Take a cup of coffee and add three drops of poison and what have you got? Microsoft J++. (Scott McNealy)

Using PL/I must be like flying a plane with 7,000 buttons, switches, and handles to manipulate in the cockpit. (Edsger Dijkstra)

If you want to shoot yourself in the foot, Perl will give you ten bullets and a laser scope, then stand by and cheer you on. (Teodor Zlatanov)

Java is the most distressing thing to happen to computing since MS-DOS. (Alan Kay)

Your development cycle is much faster because Java is interpreted. The compile-link-load-test-crash-debug cycle is obsolete. (James Gosling)

Actually, I'm trying to make Ruby natural, not simple. (Yukihiro "Matz" Matsumoto)

Historically, languages designed for other people to use have been bad: Cobol, PL/I, Pascal, Ada, C++. The good languages have been those that were designed for their own creators: C, Perl, Smalltalk, Lisp. (Paul Graham)

When FORTRAN has been called an infantile disorder, PL/I, with its growth characteristics of a dangerous tumor, could turn out to be a fatal disease. (Edsger Dijkstra)

The three characteristics of Perl programmers: mundaneness, sloppiness, and fatuousness. (Xah Lee)

PL/I, "the fatal disease", belongs more to the problem set than to the solution set. (Edsger Dijkstra)

C treats you like a consenting adult. Pascal treats you like a naughty child. Ada treats you like a criminal. (Bruce Powel Douglass)

Java is, in many ways, C++--. (Michael Feldman)

Perl has grown from being a very good scripting language into something like a cross between a universal solvent and an open-ended Mandarin where new ideograms are invented hourly. (Jeffrey Davis)

LISP is like a ball of mud. You can add any amount of mud to it and it still looks like a ball of mud. (Joel Moses)

Perl is like vise grips. You can do anything with it but it is the wrong tool for every job. (Bruce Eckel)

I view the JVM as just another architecture that Perl ought to be ported to. (That, and the Underwood typewriter...) (Larry Wall)

I have found that humans often use Smalltalk during awkward moments. ("Data")

Perl: The only language that looks the same before and after RSA encryption. (Keith Bostic)

PL/I and Ada started out with all the bloat, were very daunting languages, and got bad reputations (deservedly). C++ has shown that if you slowly bloat up a language over a period of years, people don't seem to mind as much. (James Hague)

C++ is history repeated as tragedy. Java is history repeated as farce. (Scott McKay)

A Lisp programmer knows the value of everything, but the cost of nothing. (Alan Perlis)

Claiming Java is easier than C++ is like saying that K2 is shorter than Everest. (Larry O'Brien)

In the best possible scenario Java will end up mostly like Eiffel but with extra warts because of insufficiently thoughtful early design. (Matthew B Kennel)

Java, the best argument for Smalltalk since C++. (Frank Winkler)

[Perl] is the sanctuary of dunces. The godsend for brainless coders. The means and banner of sysadmins. The lingua franca of trial-and-error hackers. The song and dance of stultified engineers. (Xah Lee)

Going from programming in Pascal to programming in C, is like learning to write in Morse code. (J P Candusso)

Arguing that Java is better than C++ is like arguing that grasshoppers taste better than tree bark. (Thant Tessman)

I think conventional languages are for the birds. They're just extensions of the von Neumann computer, and they keep our noses in the dirt of dealing with individual words and computing addresses, and doing all kinds of silly things like that, things that we've picked up from programming for computers; we've built them into programming languages; we've built them into Fortran; we've built them in PL/1; we've built them into almost every language. (John Backus)

C++: Simula in wolf's clothing. (Bjarne Stroustrup)

Java: the elegant simplicity of C++ and the blazing speed of Smalltalk. (Jan Steinman)

Perl is a car with an autopilot designed by insane aliens. (Jeff Smith)

Like the creators of sitcoms or junk food or package tours, Java's designers were consciously designing a product for people not as smart as them. (Paul Graham)

High thoughts must have a high language. (Aristophanes)

The more of an IT flavor the job descriptions had, the less dangerous was the company. The safest kind were the ones that wanted Oracle experience. You never had to worry about those. You were also safe if they said they wanted C++ or Java developers. If they wanted Perl or Python programmers, that would be a bit frightening. If I had ever seen a job posting looking for Lisp hackers, I would have been really worried. (Paul Graham)

Anyone could learn Lisp in one day, except that if they already knew Fortran, it would take three days. (Marvin Minsky)

Javascript is the duct tape of the Internet. (Charlie Campbell)

kurzog
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Post by kurzog »

LMAO!

Thanks, as well.. :D

delon
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Javascript

Post by delon »

Hi all,

I am new to Blender and Blender development. I would like to ask the more experienced ones, how much work and pain needed to put into to incorporate a JavaScript engine to Blender? Is Blender's core prepared to have more scripting interfaces?

Regards,
Peter

delon
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Javascript

Post by delon »

Hi all,

I am new to Blender and Blender development. I would like to ask the more experienced ones, how much work and pain is needed to incorporate a Javascript engine into Blender. Is Blender's core prepared, in theory, to have more scripting interfaces running?

Bye,
Peter

mchs3d
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Post by mchs3d »

Next time, if you want to change something you said earlier, you can simply hit the EDIT button on the top-right corner of the post. :wink: Javascript is mainly used for the web. Python (although not a very good language in my opinion) is much better for use offline and online. There is no need to incorporate Javascript in Blender, Python is good enough.

delon
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Post by delon »

[quote="mchs3d"]Next time, if you want to change something you said earlier, you can simply hit the EDIT button on the top-right corner of the post. :wink: Javascript is mainly used for the web. Python (although not a very good language in my opinion) is much better for use offline and online. There is no need to incorporate Javascript in Blender, Python is good enough.[/quote]

:) I didn't mean it to be an edit but the forum code has fallen apart during my first post so I made a double-post without knowing the first one still made it through. Sorry for that, I'll be more aware from now on.

I use Javascript in offline context everyday and I highly appreciate its capabilities that's why I would like to know if Blender code is prepared to add such an extension without misery.

Regards,
Peter

mchs3d
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Post by mchs3d »

Thorax, those are hilarious! Please say where you got them from! :lol:

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