THE N-GONS PROJECT

Compiling, libraries, modules, coding guidelines and porting

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Youssef|3d
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Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:02 pm

Post by Youssef|3d » Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:08 am

hi guys

I just want to explain why so much people want ngons, but befor I start keep something in your mind: "ngons won't make you a better artist" maybe a faster one

the reason why many people like ngons is the concept that is behind ngons modeling. you start with a primitive and model the rough form of the object out, it's a bit like drawing. if you want to draw a head or a body you start with a box or a ball or something like that as well.

later you can add the details. in this process you will get ngons but never mind, you can retopologize how you want and there is no algo that change a face to a triangle.

after intigrating the ngons meshsystem we will have more poly tools that you know from other 3dpacks that allow ngons

so do we realy need that ? if you are a poly by poly modeller you will say no because you don't need that and don't feel comfortable with that but for us (the guys who like boxmodeling) we will say yes because it offers us so much and we can control the vertices number of the poly.

here are more informations:
http://www.subdivisionmodeling.com/wiki ... x+Modeling

something that I noticed are sentences like : "blender doesn't need that because I see no need for that" keep always in mind that there are a lot of guys who see more need in this or that because they know how to use it and understand it.

about the ngons project: well I think the intigration of ngongs in blender is hard and needs time.
there are other projects which have too much priority
all in all I think that it is a question of time until we will get ngons in blender but in this time you can use wings like I do.

see ya :wink:

artisanicview
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Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:57 am

Post by artisanicview » Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:33 am

"blender doesn't need that because I see no need for that"

Well, I think this afirmation is stated by someone who never worked with NGONS. Please take a look here:

http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthr ... hlight=2.4

And count how manny are asking for NGONS in Blender.

One of the most asket feature for post 2.32 is NGONS. Why? Beacouse they are werry useful. All serious applications have this. You can pointme a PRO app who dont haveit? Surely not! Why a lot of users are using Wing? Beacouse have NGONS!

Azrael
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Location: Stouffville, Ontario -- Canada
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Post by Azrael » Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:37 am

Choice is better than no choice. NGons would open a whole new toolbox. We are talking about MORE tools, not less. More choice is better, yes? You don't like NGons and you model poly by poly? Great, just keep doing what you are used to. You want to Box Model and use NGons? Great, just keep doing what you are used to. Or hey, you like poly poly modeling AND you use NGons in your workflow. Great, just keep doing what you are used to.

I think that just the fact that so many of us disagree shows that people want choice.

Let's 'face' it, you can model how you're used to, either way.

joeri
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Post by joeri » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:17 am

I think people want ngons because it makes subdivsurf life easier.
It also opens up easier tools for beveling.

But as I understand it it's not easy to implement in blender because of the current data system. ie. the way a vertex-edge-face is handled in memory.
Changing this reaches right in the hart of blender, the vertex system. All other areas need to adjust to that: modeltools, materials, textures, mapping, rendering. Everything. So,... who of the "demanders" wants to lead that project?

Azrael
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Post by Azrael » Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:53 am

The person who will lead this will surface if it's something the community wants. I vote for it, I'm part of the community, I hope more people vote for it.

moh taia
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Post by moh taia » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:59 pm

I vote for it too
N-gons will give blender almost unlimited modelling options

LetterRip
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Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:03 am

Post by LetterRip » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:14 am

it isn't a 'voting' based thing :)

It is more dependent on the developers free time. Briggs is working on a new ngons implementation and the basic functionality is there - it might make it for 2.5 but also might not.

LetterRip

kitsu
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Post by kitsu » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:59 pm

Good news LetterRip! does he have a wiki page up yet?

LetterRip
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Post by LetterRip » Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:49 pm

He might but i don't think so,

LetterRip

Timothy
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Post by Timothy » Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:26 pm


kitsu
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Post by kitsu » Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:54 pm

Wow, very good proposal! The constraints you've set are very sane, and it looks like you have lots of clever ideas on data formatting. I look forward to testing builds ;)

Timothy
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Post by Timothy » Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:35 pm

kitsu wrote:Wow, very good proposal! The constraints you've set are very sane, and it looks like you have lots of clever ideas on data formatting. I look forward to testing builds ;)
That isn't my work,.. Briggs is working on that.

Azrael
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NGONS

Post by Azrael » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:54 am

That is looking very promising. I look forward to trying it out. :-)

Thank you Briggs!

FreakyDude
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Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:29 pm
Location: Europe

Post by FreakyDude » Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:22 pm

artisanicview wrote:"blender doesn't need that because I see no need for that"

Well, I think this afirmation is stated by someone who never worked with NGONS. Please take a look here:

http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthr ... hlight=2.4

And count how manny are asking for NGONS in Blender.

One of the most asket feature for post 2.32 is NGONS. Why? Beacouse they are werry useful. All serious applications have this. You can pointme a PRO app who dont haveit? Surely not! Why a lot of users are using Wing? Beacouse have NGONS!
I've worked with Ngons, I don't think I need them. I wouldn't mind them being there, but I have one concern about em:
When I got used to just tris and quads it appearred a hell of a lot easier to see what is going on in your mesh. It's easier to keep clean, box modeling or poly by poly. It's easier when you cut. Sure you may have to clean up some new verts afterwards, but that often also goes for Ngon modeling.
I don't like carefully cutting my mesh up finding it has some weird huge ngons afterwards that disrupt flow, or verts moved very closely to each other and you get weird shading artifacts or somthing. it''s a pain when you've aligned your original verts and can't really determine which ones were original and which were newly created.
If there where to be some switch, as to allow a certain action like knife to create ngnons or stay far away from them, or Ngons as a whole, I'd say it's an improvement. Otherwise, well you may have more options, but you have to check more often to make sure your mesh is still clean.

Gustav Göransson
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:07 pm

Post by Gustav Göransson » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:49 pm

FreakyDude wrote:It's easier when you cut. Sure you may have to clean up some new verts afterwards, but that often also goes for Ngon modeling.
I would say the opposite, having Ngons would make cutting easier, it adds more freedom, don't add unwanted geometry which make the clean up process easier.
I don't like carefully cutting my mesh up finding it has some weird huge ngons afterwards that disrupt flow, or verts moved very closely to each other and you get weird shading artifacts or somthing. it''s a pain when you've aligned your original verts and can't really determine which ones were original and which were newly created.
Which application have you used, which creates huge weird ngons and verts closely to each other without you doing it? I'm just courius.

And not talk about all benifits Ngons bring to mechanical and non sub-D modeling. And all the new tools the B-mesh will bring

Vote for N-gons vote for freedom =)

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