New button styles (With mockup images)

The interface, modeling, 3d editing tools, import/export, feature requests, etc

Moderators: jesterKing, stiv

Post Reply
dittohead
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 2:49 am

Post by dittohead » Tue Aug 12, 2003 8:31 pm

awesome stuff broken!!

i have to say, i'm in favour of the heavier gradients, though that's just my opinion.

keep up the good work!!
dittohead

dittohead
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 2:49 am

Post by dittohead » Wed Aug 13, 2003 1:58 am

*cough*linux binary*cough*
dittohead

Eric
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:01 pm
Location: Sweden, Norrköping

Post by Eric » Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:00 am

*cough* *cough*

matt_e
Posts: 410
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 4:32 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Post by matt_e » Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:14 am

Hey Landis, they're some nice ideas. I think the text needs more contrast though since it's quite hard to read at a glance. While some don't, I definitely share your philsophy of 'no colours'. I'd much prefer all the interface controls to be greyscale. If I'm working on something (especially using hotkeys/toolbox) I don't want colourful stuff to take my attention and distract me. That's another discussion though, I think :) Love the pulsating render button, reminds me of the default 'OK' buttons in Mac OS X. No idea how to go about doing that in Blender, or even if it's possible (I don't think it is :/ ). Hopefully we can work something out with the fold-away-panels on the funboard!

M@dcow: Good to hear! I find it to be less distracting too - helps me focus on the work at hand. About the arrows, yeah that's really because in the current Blender, there are no arrows and so some buttons were made just small enough to fit the text/numbers with no room for anything else. Easy enough to change the size of the buttons to make them fit, but I haven't bothered with any of that (especially since it's very likely that there will be a button layout reorganisation and improvement before 2.3).

Here's a 30 second hack job darkening the colours of the buttons panels. Didn't bother to change the colours of anything else like the viewport, so the rest of the screen is ugly ;) In any case, this would potentially be quite easy to do in user prefs, using the colour changing code in tuhopuu1.

Image

Here's the latest windows build of the crap I've got running here, including the subtler buttons, minor tweaks and details, and other experimental junk like menus and so on... I'd love to share a Linux build if I could, but I'm not running Linux here. If anyone with the capability to compile up a Linux version would like to, I'd be more than happy to send over some source files.

sten
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 7:47 pm

Post by sten » Wed Aug 13, 2003 8:18 am

WOW!! :!: :!:

I really love this GUI, it looks very proffesional!!

keep up the good work !!

but I see some flaws with using these arrows on the sides, cause with scaling the button windows, the text or numbers are overlapping the arrows, and this looks not very good...maybe think of something better?

matt_e
Posts: 410
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 4:32 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Post by matt_e » Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:00 pm

ztonzy wrote:but I see some flaws with using these arrows on the sides, cause with scaling the button windows, the text or numbers are overlapping the arrows, and this looks not very good...maybe think of something better?
Hey ztonzy! This gives me an idea.. I wonder if it would be good to only show the arrows when the mouse rolls over the button. I'll give it a try now!

UPDATE:
Well, it seems to work nicely, I'm yet undecided about whether it's a good idea or not.

Pros: Interface looks much cleaner, less visual noise.
Cons: Less differentiation, num fields look much more similar to normal buttons now. Num fields look the same as text fields on first glance. Is this a problem? Most OSes' number and text fields look the same, however in Blender they work differently (click once to edit text, but shift click to edit numbers). Maybe this would be more consistent if the num button behaviour was changed to click once to edit? I'm not sure.

Here's 2 comparison images to see how it makes it look cleaner, but it's really something you have to try out and test. Could I get some windows users to test this binary and see how it feels compared to the other? My offer's still open for any willing compilers on other OSes too :)

Image

Image

flippyneck
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 10:34 am
Contact:

Post by flippyneck » Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:35 pm

I had a play with the new interface and here are my thoughts. Hope they're useful:

-The new drop down menus are superb - improved appearance and better access to all those shortcuts that you would never otherwise find.

-The gradients on the buttons work much better on the window headers and menu icons than on the actual interface buttons. To be honest I think there is no problem with the buttons themselves it is just that changing their appearance does not improve the general clutter which already exists. For an experienced user it just makes a less familiar looking clutter...

-The new interface buttons don't seem 'chunky' enough to me. Maybe a slightly deeper bevel to make them 'stick out' more?

-In general I would favour the idea of getting rid of coloured buttons (especially as there is no obvious logic to the colours currently used), but instead using colour to indicate button status. ie subtle changes in border or text colour to distinguish between up/down state of buttons, or to show the value of a slider.

keep up the good work

ton
Site Admin
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 12:13 am
Contact:

Post by ton » Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:42 pm

If you look at it in a glance, the selected options in 'row' or 'tog' buttons immediately stand out among the others, mainly because of the white text in black background. Which is OK of course.

What about adopting this for text buttons and the values in the number-sliders... by drawing the text in white by default? (keep the grey bg)

In general, when you want to assign meaning to colors/sizes/shapes/fonts, we can devise a few nice rules for that. Especially in assisting getting a 'quick glance' overview. If you think of dropping colors altogether, then still we need a means to give certain buttons visual priorities.

(flashing pulsating buttons are horrible! Only for menus that *have* to be used.. maybe then, but for persistant permanent interfaces such things will become very annyoing.)

matt_e
Posts: 410
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 4:32 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Post by matt_e » Wed Aug 13, 2003 1:14 pm

flippyneck wrote:I had a play with the new interface and here are my thoughts. Hope they're useful:
Very much so!
flippyneck wrote:-The new drop down menus are superb - improved appearance and better access to all those shortcuts that you would never otherwise find.
Yup, we're still trying to work out how to best organise this on the functionality board, so if you have any ideas, please come along and share them :)
-The gradients on the buttons work much better on the window headers and menu icons than on the actual interface buttons. To be honest I think there is no problem with the buttons themselves it is just that changing their appearance does not improve the general clutter which already exists. For an experienced user it just makes a less familiar looking clutter...
That's funny, I find it the opposite about the buttons/header buttons myself.. Anyway the main idea is to differentiate the different types of controls more, so the different controls which work in different ways can be recognised. This is something that's desperately needed in Blender, for plenty of good functionality reasons that have been discussed earlier in this thread and in others. At the same time, I'm trying to modernise them a bit - make them look nicer and easier on the eye at the same time.
-The new interface buttons don't seem 'chunky' enough to me. Maybe a slightly deeper bevel to make them 'stick out' more?
What does everyone think about this? Here is a mockup with these current buttons on the left, and with a bit more of a bevel on the right:

Image


ton: I tried to make the tex/num buts text white before, but there's some weirdness in the code. I'll ask you about it in more detail...

leinad13
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 5:35 pm

Post by leinad13 » Wed Aug 13, 2003 1:57 pm

Hey broken i appologise for that thread where i kinda had a go at you for not sharing what you have done is great, i was hoping it would be tuhopuu tho so that i could try out some of it new features because my build won't build any more.

Good work keep it up.
-------------
Over to you boffins

L!13

Landis
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 11:45 pm

Post by Landis » Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:40 pm

ton wrote: (flashing pulsating buttons are horrible! Only for menus that *have* to be used.. maybe then, but for persistant permanent interfaces such things will become very annyoing.)
I agree...although the text was only going to pulsate WHILE rendering ....not all the time...that would drive ME crazy! I am the guy that suggested ZERO colors...I sure as hell would'nt suggest BLINKING buttons :shock: ! This way when I move over to another system while a large scene is rendering on this one (which is the only time you would really even notice the feature anyways considering the speed of Blenders renderer) I could just glance over at the other screen periodically to see if it was still rendering (blinking). Nevertheless I was just playing around and I am sure that it would be close to impossible to impliment so for future reference consider it a "mock up" and nothing more :wink: . Besides, there are other indications that the scene is still rendering so this is definatley not a priority...so again...I was just playing around.

broken,

I have also been "playing around" with your interface...it is extrodinary. Used in conjunction with the automatic buttons switching upon object selection (select a lamp and the lamp buttons appear), productivity will only improve and continue to improve if you ca help it right?.

As far as your arrow dillema...

Let's take OSA for example...try making it to where you must first enable OSA
before being able to adjust the number of samples. If the OSA button is not pushed then why should you have to look at the sample settings :roll: ?! More clutter!! I think we would find that this would really clean things up throughout the interface! See below

Image

In the case where you do have OSA enabled (or any other feature such as MBLUR, EDGE, etc.), the increments would be based off of what ever that specific setting would support...for example: the OSA could not be 4.6 samples...the slider would jump in compatible increments that are currently available. And last but not least...if you can find the time :wink: , try to compile a greyscale version in which the highlights (mouse over's) are in color!

Now, last but not least, I think WE all agree that your interface not only improves Blender cosmetically (it looks sooooo much more professional) but it already improves productivity as well...so...go start a poll over at Elsyiun asking the rest of the community what they think of the screenshots :wink: .

Take care buddy and keep up the good work. Hey...all of this has gotten me really excited about Blender lately (more than I usually am)...so I have been playing around with some PR shtuff....I think its time we show this industry that we mean business...what do ya say?

Image



Cheers,
Landis
Last edited by Landis on Thu Aug 14, 2003 3:04 am, edited 11 times in total.

dittohead
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 2:49 am

Post by dittohead » Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:57 pm

i'd be more than happy to build a linux version, however i'm not sure if any coding would have to be done to get it to work, or whether it would even build here.

tuhopuu won't build with freetype enabled, other wise i would be happy to do it!
dittohead

ilac
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 8:24 am

Post by ilac » Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:06 am

Landis wrote: Now, last but not least, I think WE all agree....
Please don't pass such general sweeping statements. Most of us here are capable of speaking for ourselves. thank you. :wink:



spooky music begins......
broken wrote: UPDATE:
Well, it seems to work nicely, I'm yet undecided about whether it's a good idea or not.
Image
I don't really like the arrows on mouse-over. It defeats the whole point of the changing the GUI! People's justification over changing the GUI was that it was not easy to distiguish the type of buttons. the arrows solve that for those buttons so I'd rather they where there all the time.

Another thing which I'm finding annoying (with the arrow buttons, is that they seem to have much stronger gradient. The background is also too dark to have black text on. I would rather arrows all the time but then have the actual colour and gradient like the regular buttons.

To solve the arrow problem maybe you could have a smaller flat box on top of the button which represents the text and keeps the text within it. this would allso make it clear to the user that they can type in a value and not just use the arrows. i believe someone had done something similar a few months back and posted a mock up on these phorums if I recall correctly.
broken wrote: Image
When I see this sample, I think it looks great (except for the problems mentioned above vis-avis the bf: 0:500 button) But when I had the whole interface in front of me it came across as clutter. too much variation, not enough consistancy across the different types of buttons. Especially as the layout and relationship of the button TYPES changes in each window.

I know this is still wip but it is what I've got to give you feedback on! :wink:

Thanks!

madprof
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 11:15 pm

Post by madprof » Thu Aug 14, 2003 1:25 pm

It seems to work quite well under WINE in linux, so I tested it out a bit. I have a 1024x768 screen, and there are one or two drawing problems with buttons occasionly, with it not showing the dark outline on buttons (need to zoom in to get them). Probably something to do with using the "+asp" when "asp" is too small to draw a line, or something (I had similar probs in gooey-ui).

Looking good! I especially like the menus. The drop-down arrows on buttons are rather hard to see on 1024x768, and come out looking a bit like a squashed diamond. Could you try just a down-pointing triangle?

Dan

Karim
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 7:15 pm

Post by Karim » Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:34 pm

Broken, Great work!

I'd like to suggest looking back to an earlier idea with a little alteration re: color.

How about firmly defining each class of control with a particular Color Attribute, which is then customizable by the user?

So:

Toggles = Color A
Action Button = B
Text Field = C
"Arrow" button = D
Slider = E

Then there can be a "Standard," "Monochrome," and "Custom" definitions for the different colors.

WRT the Text Fields, I think it would be a mistake to have white text for text entry fields, because then it will become difficult to distinguish between a text-field and a pushed-in button. As someone else suggested, I think Text fields should be completely flat (no gradient at all) since by your own arguement (which I agree with, BTW) they do not fit in the button metaphor, and don't need the extra "meat."

Post Reply