Missing Menu Items (and some hotkey comments)

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LukeW
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Missing Menu Items (and some hotkey comments)

Post by LukeW » Thu Nov 13, 2003 3:33 pm

These are the commands and hotkeys (that I've noticed so far) that are missing from the 2.30 preview version.....

In View Menu:

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Top                 NumPad 7
Bottom         Ctrl Numpad 7
Front               NumPad 1
Back           Ctrl NumPad 1
Right               NumPad 3
Left           Ctrl NumPad 3
Camera              NumPad 0
Use Active Obj As Camera
               Ctrl NumPad 0
User
Note: The title should be "Active Object" not "Selected" because it makes the view go to the active object, even if the active object is unselected, and inactive objects are selected. To do this, left click on an object to make it active, then use "a" to unselect it, then use "b" to select another object. Using Ctrl-Numpad0 will make the active object become the new camera, even if it is unselected and something else is selected.
I know that suggested name is really long, but it explains that the active object is used as the camera - so if another view is from the camera's point of view (and the views are locked...) then that other view would be affected as well!
I think the hotkeys for Left and Right (Numpad3 and Ctrl-Numpad3) should be swapped so that the menu order can be like 3ds max - where it has "left" then "right", while the hotkeys still look organised.
I think the "User" entry should be greyed out since it isn't user-selectable. The only way to enter that mode is to move the view around manually.


(There's also Redraw - NumPad 9 - but I'm not sure how useful that is)

In Viewport Navigation Submenu:

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Pan Left    Ctrl NumPad 4
Pan Right   Ctrl NumPad 6
Pan Up      Ctrl NumPad 8
Pan Down    Ctrl NumPad 2
(instead of "Pan" it could be "Move" or "Shift"?)

The mode menu: (depending on active object)
(Hotkeys should be revised first)

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(icon) Object Mode         Tab
(icon) Edit Mode           Tab
(icon) Pose Mode      Ctrl Tab
(icon) UV Face Select        V
(icon) Vertex Paint          V
(icon) Texture Paint       ???
The V hotkeys don't work in editmode. Also you can't get into object mode it you are in uv face select, vertex paint, or texture paint mode, or if you were in one of those modes and have just entered editmode. When you press tab it will take you back into the previous mode, not into object mode.

(Maybe in top menu??? Not sure about title)

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Playback Animation In All Views    Shift Alt A
There currently is Alt A in the View menus, which only plays back the animation in the current view.

Rotation/Scaling centerpoint mode:
One has "," (comma) as a hotkey and another has "." (dot) as a hotkey. The other two don't seem to have hotkeys.

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi » Thu Nov 13, 2003 6:07 pm

Very very good work Luke! This is stuff that needs to be implemented in the menus! The only problem is that menus could get quite long. The solution would be to add more submenus. In view there could be a submenu called "Views" or something which included all this:


Top NumPad 7
Bottom Ctrl Numpad 7
Front NumPad 1
Back Ctrl NumPad 1
Right NumPad 3
Left Ctrl NumPad 3
Camera NumPad 0
User

Other missing features in the menus:

IPO window:
Snap... hotkey: shift S (should be under Curve)

3D Window:
Mirror hotkey: M (should be un edit mode under Mesh>vertices)

Text Editor:
Copy to OS clipboard hotkey: Ctrl Shift C
Cut to OS clipboard hotkey: Ctrl Shift X
Paste from OS clipboard hotkey: Ctrl Shift V

The Action and NLA window still don't have any menus at all. To keep consistancy they should. Infact all the windows should (except File Browser).


Edit:

Here are even more missing features in the menus:

IPO window:
Join keyframes Ctrl J (it seems to be broken at the moment. It works in 2.28 and anything before it)


3D window:
Make object fit image aspect ratio Alt V
Align View menu Shift V
Circle Select BB (I think this would be very cool to add to the Select menu..)
Last edited by Monkeyboi on Thu Nov 13, 2003 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi » Thu Nov 13, 2003 6:24 pm

I just had a thought!


The suggestion of adding "Use Active Obj As Camera Ctrl Numpad 0" is a great idea since it is a very important feature, but the name is very long. The menu would have to be widened to make space for that! I was sitting and thinking. I first thought of changing it to "make camera", but that sounds like you are adding a camera object. Then it struck me: How about "Set Camera"? That would make really good sence don't you think? I know it doesn't say that it is the active object it reacts to, but that is kindof self explantory, since you can't have more than one set camera anyway. What do you think?


Has anybody else noticed any other missing menu items?

Ghost
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Post by Ghost » Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:32 pm

I have two more:

Shift V (align view to vertices in edit mode)
Shift L (deselects linked vertices)

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi » Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:27 pm

Yay! Lets keep them coming!

Although Ghost: I don't really see how Deselect Linked Vertices (Shift L) can be integrated, because it deselects everything from the linked group of vertices closest to the cursor. This wouldn't really work in a menu, since the cursor is always in the same place when an action is executed. The solution ofcouse would be to change the way you use the tool..

It could take the group closest to the 3D cursor for instead for example.


Anybody got some more?

Ghost
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Post by Ghost » Fri Nov 14, 2003 12:14 am

Monkeyboi you are right. I didn't think it to the end.
But how can we show these context depending shortcuts to the user. In the menu, but not selectable? Nah, that would be too inconsistent.

LukeW
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Post by LukeW » Fri Nov 14, 2003 12:47 am

Ghost:
I agree that all the shortcuts/hotkeys should be shown to the user... I think that if it isn't appropriate to put something in the menus it should be put in the toolbox... or if there is already a button or icon for it, there could be a tooltip showing the hotkey.

Monkeyboi:
I thought about calling the submenu "Views" (like in 3ds max) but I thought it was a bit odd having the main menu called "View" as well.
3D Window:
Mirror hotkey: M (should be un edit mode under Mesh>vertices)
"M" is used to move objects to different layers, even in editmode. To mirror something the hotkey is "s then x" or "s then y" or "s then z". (You don't press them simultaneously.)
How about "Set Camera"?
Yeah, that would be good... (though if the active object isn't a camera object you won't be able to adjust its camera properties like the lens like normal cameras - I think)
Copy to OS clipboard hotkey: Ctrl Shift C
Cut to OS clipboard hotkey: Ctrl Shift X
Paste from OS clipboard hotkey: Ctrl Shift V
At the moment, there is no cut to OS clipboard hotkey.

Copy to OS clipboard is:
ctrl-shift-C AND alt-shift-C (2 different hotkeys)

Paste to OS clipboard is:
ctrl-shift-V

I guess the alt-shift-C hotkey should be ignored.... (and removed from the code) since the "alt" part is inconsistent.

I made a request that there be no separate hotkeys for blender cut/copy/paste and OS clipboard cut/copy/paste here:
http://projects.blender.org/tracker/ind ... 9&atid=125

I talk about it and related things in more detail here:
http://www.blender.org/pipermail/bf-fun ... 00894.html
http://www.blender.org/pipermail/bf-fun ... 00895.html
http://www.blender.org/pipermail/bf-fun ... 00897.html

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi » Fri Nov 14, 2003 9:40 am

Monkeyboi:
I thought about calling the submenu "Views" (like in 3ds max) but I thought it was a bit odd having the main menu called "View" as well.
Yes, but it wouldn't actually be that strange. View has all the view options, while Views under View has the different views to choose from. We have to do it if we want to include Botton, Back, Left etc views. Otherwise ther View menu will be much too long.

3D Window:
Mirror hotkey: M (should be un edit mode under Mesh>vertices)

"M" is used to move objects to different layers, even in editmode. To mirror something the hotkey is "s then x" or "s then y" or "s then z". (You don't press them simultaneously.)
You are wrong. In 2.30, M in edit mode is for mirroring. It's a new thing and it's really cool. But it is not in the menus.

Quote:
Copy to OS clipboard hotkey: Ctrl Shift C
Cut to OS clipboard hotkey: Ctrl Shift X
Paste from OS clipboard hotkey: Ctrl Shift V

At the moment, there is no cut to OS clipboard hotkey
Yes there is. You even say so below.
Copy to OS clipboard is:
ctrl-shift-C AND alt-shift-C (2 different hotkeys)

Paste to OS clipboard is:
ctrl-shift-V
regular copy is ctrl-c AND alt-c too. Shouldn't that be in the menus then?

I guess the alt-shift-C hotkey should be ignored.... (and removed from the code) since the "alt" part is inconsistent.
I think the ctrl modufier should be shown in the menu, but there is no reason to remove the alt-c, alt-v and alt-x functionality. The menu should display this:

Copy ctrl c
Cut ctrl x
Paste ctrl v

Copy to OS ctrl shift c
Cut to OS ctrl shift x
Paste from OS ctrl shift v


I made a request that there be no separate hotkeys for blender cut/copy/paste and OS clipboard cut/copy/paste here:
I agree. I think that Copy, Paste and Cut should always copy/cut/paste to the OS clipboard, but since they don't it is very important that the function to do so is displayed in the menu.

Regards

LukeW
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Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 1:14 pm

Post by LukeW » Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:25 am

3D Window:
Mirror hotkey: M (should be un edit mode under Mesh>vertices)
Ok, I see now....
I read the changelog
http://www.blender.org/docs/2.30_release/2.30.html
Which I think should have been in the readme. (You shouldn't have to search the internet to find out about changed hotkeys).
It seems that there is currently no way of mirroring objects while not in editmode.
"At the moment, there is no cut to OS clipboard hotkey"
----------------------
Yes there is. You even say so below.
I said no *cut* to OS clipboard. There is copy and paste to OS clipboard but not *cut*. Cut only puts things into the blender clipboard.
Copy to OS clipboard is:
ctrl-shift-C AND alt-shift-C (2 different hotkeys)

Paste to OS clipboard is:
ctrl-shift-V
---------------
regular copy is ctrl-c AND alt-c too. Shouldn't that be in the menus then?
I don't think it should. (BTW, my point is that it is inconsistent that copy to OS has 2 hotkeys while paste to OS has 1)
I think the ctrl modufier should be shown in the menu, but there is no reason to remove the alt-c, alt-v and alt-x functionality.
I think those alt hotkeys are as least as difficult to use or more difficult than the ctrl hotkeys... all programs that I know of use ctrl-c, ctrl-v, ctrl-x, etc for those hotkeys - why let the user develop habits that don't work in other programs (many or most programs don't let you change the hotkeys). I guess I just think it is messy having undocumented hotkeys that have highly questionable usefulness. But in the end it doesn't make much difference since virtually everyone wouldn't even know that those alternate hotkeys exist.
The menu should display this:

Copy ctrl c
Cut ctrl x
Paste ctrl v

Copy to OS ctrl shift c
Cut to OS ctrl shift x
Paste from OS ctrl shift v
I think the order should be cut/copy/paste because that's the order in windows, and also the order of the hotkeys on the keyboard (x,c,v).
Also, "cut to OS" doesn't exist (and I don't think it should be added either since I think the OS and blender cut/copy/pastes should be combined)

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi » Fri Nov 14, 2003 11:57 am

I said no *cut* to OS clipboard. There is copy and paste to OS clipboard but not *cut*. Cut only puts things into the blender clipboard
I'm sorry. I misunderstood. I didn't realise this.

I think those alt hotkeys are as least as difficult to use or more difficultI than the ctrl hotkeys... all programs that I know of use ctrl-c, ctrl-v, ctrl-x, etc for those hotkeys - why let the user develop habits that don't work in other programs (many or most programs don't let you change the hotkeys). I guess I just think it is messy having undocumented hotkeys that have highly questionable usefulness. But in the end it doesn't make much difference since virtually everyone wouldn't even know that those alternate hotkeys exist.
Yes I agree with you. We might as well remove the alt modyfier function. But as you say maybe we wouldn't have to remove the alt modufier if we just display the ctrl one. Really I agree with you, I'm just concerned that some will be upset because they use alt instead of ctrl.

I think the order should be cut/copy/paste because that's the order in windows, and also the order of the hotkeys on the keyboard (x,c,v).
Also, "cut to OS" doesn't exist (and I don't think it should be added either since I think the OS and blender cut/copy/pastes should be combined)
Yes! Agree!! We REALLY should combine OS and Blender copy/cut/paste function. It is just silly to have them seperated.

LukeW
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Post by LukeW » Sun Dec 07, 2003 3:20 pm

` (on the upper-left of the keyboard, on the tilde ~ key)
Show all layers

~ tilde (shift-`) toggle between all layers being visible and the previous layer visibility setting. (Though as I've said on mailing lists, I think they should be called "groups" rather than "layers")

1,2,3....5,6,7,8,9,0,alt-1....alt-9,alt-0 these could be tooltips on the individual layer (group) buttons. They're used to make the appropriate layer visible, while turning the visibility of the other layers off.

shift-1, shift-2....shift-9, shift-0, alt-shift-1....alt-shift-0 ... these could also be on the individual layer tooltips... they toggle the visibility of individual layers without affecting the visibility of the other layers. (A more concise description would be needed)

Or as an alternative (or addition) to the last two paragraphs, the tooltip for the layer buttons could be added to to say that shift-left-click (or shift-LMB) can be used to select and deselect additional layers. (A normal click only lets you select one layer)

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi » Sun Dec 07, 2003 3:55 pm

Yay! Good to see the list of missing features in the menus being updated! I just found some more missing menu items..

In 3D Window >> View >> Viewport navigation, the following are missing:

Pan up (Ctrl+numpad8)
Pan down (Ctrl+numpad2)
Pan left (Ctrl+numpad4)
Pan right (Ctrl+numpad6)

In faceselect mode, UV Calculation (Ukey) is missing from the menu. It should be under Face. Very important feature here missing!

Also, a very important thing in the IPO editor: In the
IPO window it is not possible to enter IPO-Editmode by
other means than tab. Shouldn't the modes work kinda
like in the 3D window? Anyway, to clarify what I mean
I have made this little mockup:

This should show when you are in Curve mode(equivalent
to Object mode in 3D window):
http://www.shadeless.dk/ui/ipowindow_header_curve.jpg

This should show when you are in Edit mode (like Edit
mode in the 3D window)
http://www.shadeless.dk/ui/ipowindow_header_edit.jpg


There are quite few important features left out from the menus it seems! Lets hope someone implements these things, as some of them are essential to Blender!

LukeW
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Post by LukeW » Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:03 am

Note:

Many of these items still aren't in the Blender 2.32 menus........

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