Further Interface Improvement proposal - NEW: UV Editing

The interface, modeling, 3d editing tools, import/export, feature requests, etc

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ideasman
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Post by ideasman » Sat Jan 24, 2004 11:35 pm

lightning wrote:Having read quite a lot of your proposals, I have a suggestion:

A lot of the blender users are used to some of the more fundamental things like mouse buttons and material window locations. Not that yours arent perhaps better, but they are different. For that reason, I think it would be a good feature to have the layout of the blender windo customizable. For example, you could have a program called customze.exe where you drag things like the button grops around, then save the custom template, then have blender load it. Of course, if there is no template file it should go to a default template.

No? Yes?

I think this is a bad idea- When you use a program you take for granted that its developers have made good design decisions with the interface and layout. So your workflow is good.

If the layout is not the best then at some point it should be changed for the better (my opinion) - Its only an interface, 2.3 was not that hard to switch to, the smae stuff in diferent places but you dont want to make more changes then are necessary.

If everybody could customize the interface Im sure they would but it would not make things faster overall. Because youd go install blender on another PC and it would need your own customizations, or at work/a friends pc- Youd have a hard time jumping into blender because the buttons would be in different places.
Its an advantage that you can use blender on any os, and install it from anywhere over the net and it always works the same way- You can get into serious modeling straight away.

- 2c

gloume
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Post by gloume » Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:43 am

Quote:
Rather than create a new proposal, I'd like to propose an idea for your proposal In addition to the horizontal/vertical alignment of panels in the buttons window, add an option for horizontal/vertical layout of buttons within all the panels. I find that with the static layout of buttons within the panels the vertical panel alignment requires too much horizontal space, particularly on small screens. Your new button layout would lend itself well to this option. Have the two column layout be the horizontal button layout, while the vertical layout would make the panels taller with a single column of buttons. One disadvantage might be more scrolling in the vertical button layout, but I still think its worth considering.
Hi, I'm sorry, having read your post through several times I still don't understand. Surely, spacewise, it never would make a difference how the buttons were orginised inside inside the individual panels.. The panels are always the same sizes both in vertical and horisontal modes. Try to explain a bit more, maybe with a mockup (doesn't have to be anything special, just to communicate what you mean). Thanks.
Sorry for the long (loooooong) delay for my reply. I was making a suggestion about the organization of buttons within panels when the buttons window is layed out vertically.

In your proposal a I noticed a lot of the button panels are similar to this:

Image

I was suggesting that, when the buttons window is aligned vertically that you have the option of the buttons within the panels being organized like this.

Image

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi » Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:23 pm

gloume wrote:Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
Rather than create a new proposal, I'd like to propose an idea for your proposal In addition to the horizontal/vertical alignment of panels in the buttons window, add an option for horizontal/vertical layout of buttons within all the panels. I find that with the static layout of buttons within the panels the vertical panel alignment requires too much horizontal space, particularly on small screens. Your new button layout would lend itself well to this option. Have the two column layout be the horizontal button layout, while the vertical layout would make the panels taller with a single column of buttons. One disadvantage might be more scrolling in the vertical button layout, but I still think its worth considering.



Hi, I'm sorry, having read your post through several times I still don't understand. Surely, spacewise, it never would make a difference how the buttons were orginised inside inside the individual panels.. The panels are always the same sizes both in vertical and horisontal modes. Try to explain a bit more, maybe with a mockup (doesn't have to be anything special, just to communicate what you mean). Thanks.

Sorry for the long (loooooong) delay for my reply. I was making a suggestion about the organization of buttons within panels when the buttons window is layed out vertically.

In your proposal a I noticed a lot of the button panels are similar to this:

(PIC)

I was suggesting that, when the buttons window is aligned vertically that you have the option of the buttons within the panels being organized like this.

(PIC)
Yeah, OK I see now. The trouble is that the panel organisation would have to be consequent about organising things in two collumns, something that in some cases works well, but in others not. Either that, or each panel would have two layouts which are independantly designed. To me, I have to admit it sounds like alot of extra work for everyone, and I can see problems arising like "button missing in render panel in panel horisontal mode" etc.

I am most concerned with taking what we have and organising the buttons logically so that things are easy to understand and easy to find. I have made a few rules for myself:
  • In many situations, panels just list a series of functions or settings. These can be organised so that the panel has two lists like you were reffering to.

    When buttons control other settings, they must be placed above them (like in the texture buttons proposal)

    When turning a button off invokes a different setting, turn the button into a list or radiobutton (example: The Yafray Button in the Render buttons.
    When you turn it off, it uses the Blender render engine, when on it uses Yafray. Therefor just having a button to enable/disable Yafray is misleading. It is not clear that Blender render engine is enabled when Yafray is off)

    Also, I try to organise things in logical groups (example: the Gauss button in the render buttons is placed miles away from the OSA button, which is relevant to it.)
    When 2.3 came, the buttons weren't properly reorganised into the new panels system. This is very apparent in the Render buttons which has lots of buttons in very illogical panels (Edge, for example, what is that doing in the Output panel? And the new Yafray button is strangelky placed too along with others.)

I have nearly done my Render Buttons proposal, which I am most proud of. I really think it is an improvement over what we have.

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi » Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:30 pm

ideasman wrote:
lightning wrote:Having read quite a lot of your proposals, I have a suggestion:

A lot of the blender users are used to some of the more fundamental things like mouse buttons and material window locations. Not that yours arent perhaps better, but they are different. For that reason, I think it would be a good feature to have the layout of the blender windo customizable. For example, you could have a program called customze.exe where you drag things like the button grops around, then save the custom template, then have blender load it. Of course, if there is no template file it should go to a default template.

No? Yes?

I think this is a bad idea- When you use a program you take for granted that its developers have made good design decisions with the interface and layout. So your workflow is good.

If the layout is not the best then at some point it should be changed for the better (my opinion) - Its only an interface, 2.3 was not that hard to switch to, the smae stuff in diferent places but you dont want to make more changes then are necessary.

If everybody could customize the interface Im sure they would but it would not make things faster overall. Because youd go install blender on another PC and it would need your own customizations, or at work/a friends pc- Youd have a hard time jumping into blender because the buttons would be in different places.
Its an advantage that you can use blender on any os, and install it from anywhere over the net and it always works the same way- You can get into serious modeling straight away.

- 2c
I agree with Ideasman on this. Customisation can be overdone alot. The best interface is not always the most customizable one. I like the way you can currently customize your work space with the window system, and move panels around. Customizable button layouts within panels is a little over the top. Especially if the buttons layout is revised and improved.

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi » Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:37 pm

dotblend wrote:
this is what i would like to see
final render multi processor style
initial image created by shadeless.dk

Sounds nice! Submit it to the feature requests! Although I don't know why you pixelated some of the image tiles.. reminds me of Bryce style rendering where it starts pixelated and then gets more and more defined.

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:36 pm

Time for a new proposal! This time it's the Render buttons that have overgone change:

Image
Imagetabbed together with:Image
Image
Image

Please read the proposal here before you comment:

http://www.shadeless.dk/ui/renderbuttons.htm


-William
Last edited by Monkeyboi on Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:40 pm

echo
Last edited by Monkeyboi on Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:41 pm

echo
Last edited by Monkeyboi on Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:50 pm

echo
Last edited by Monkeyboi on Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Monkeyboi
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Render buttons!

Post by Monkeyboi » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:50 pm

echo.

Sorry, It said Failed Sending Email like five times. :)

That has to be a record in double posting.. SIX double posts by mistake!

Anyway, comment on the proposal please!
Last edited by Monkeyboi on Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Monkeyboi
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Render buttons!

Post by Monkeyboi » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:50 pm

echo

kAinStein
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Post by kAinStein » Tue Jan 27, 2004 7:42 pm

Monkeyboi: Looks much more logical to me than the arrangement we've got right now. There is some more order in it. But wouldn't that be some panels too much? I don't know but it seems as it would get too wide on the screen (i can't compare though). They are grouped together well, but perhaps the less used (like the unified rendering stuff) could be put into a tab or something. Well, at least I don't use it much. The most used things besides some quality settings and the filetype settings, usually are the OSA, the scaling buttons and the resolution buttons (I mean the presets because they're pretty useful).

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi » Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:09 pm

kainstein wrote:Monkeyboi: Looks much more logical to me than the arrangement we've got right now. There is some more order in it. But wouldn't that be some panels too much? I don't know but it seems as it would get too wide on the screen (i can't compare though). They are grouped together well, but perhaps the less used (like the unified rendering stuff) could be put into a tab or something. Well, at least I don't use it much. The most used things besides some quality settings and the filetype settings, usually are the OSA, the scaling buttons and the resolution buttons (I mean the presets because they're pretty useful).
Hi, I'm glad you generally like it. Your suggestion on tabbing the panel with Unified Render is exactly what I proposed to do, so we agree on that.

Settings1 and Settings2 should be tabbed in one panel. I only showed both here so you could, well, see them both ofcourse!

Bellorum
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Monkeyboi

Post by Bellorum » Wed Jan 28, 2004 3:31 pm

I generally like your proposals. To be honest with you, I don't yet have a full enough understanding of Blender to comment on half of it. Anyways, what I wanted to comment upon is your buttons proposal. It looks clean and all, but one thing I've grown fond of in Blender is the multiple-color scheme of it's buttons. It makes it faster to orient myself to the right button. Your proposal is just a gray blur to me;) Otherwise, Like stated before - great job!
There's no such thing as democracy. There's only the tyranny of one, and the tyranny of many.

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi » Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:36 pm

Hi Bellorum! It's great to hear you like the proposal. About the colors:

You can still see the important difference between toggle buttons and action buttons (brightness variation). The colours wasn't the main part of the proposal though - i just think it looks nicer. The main thing is the placements and names of buttons. Colours is something different. Again, glad you liked it!


EDIT: REACH THE 8th PAGE HERE:

http://www.blender.org/modules.php?op=m ... &start=105
Last edited by Monkeyboi on Wed Jan 28, 2004 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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