User unterface and usability

The interface, modeling, 3d editing tools, import/export, feature requests, etc

Moderators: jesterKing, stiv

wibo2d3
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:10 am

User unterface and usability

Post by wibo2d3 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:28 am

Dear friends,
first i wanna say that blender is very wonderful software, witch let you create absolutely amazing stuff....But, but still remain a software difficult to use.
I work in architecture and i follow the developements from many years nows, and i am happy for the huges improvemnets you made.
So i thnk that when you will put an effort to give a usability like sofware like cinema 4d i think you go very very far away in popularity and in donation too.
Work on friedly interface, work more simplier usability.

And remember, most user of 3D software comes from architecture.

Thanks for reading.

W.Bonato

stiv
Posts: 0
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 7:58 am
Location: 45N 86W

Post by stiv » Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:08 pm

And remember, most user of 3D software comes from architecture.
I would be very surprised if this were true. I am pretty sure most Blender users are not architects.

famouswolf
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:59 pm
Location: Cape Town

Post by famouswolf » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:02 am

What is comfortable for one might not be comfortable for somebody
else. I come from using Autodesk products, but once I started getting into
blender, it just flowed much more easily for me. I can model twice as fast as
I ever could in Max. Once you get the hang of the interface and keyboard
shortcuts, you'll see how smart and intuitive it actually is.

Regards
Rolf

ericmathew

Post by ericmathew » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:38 am

Software should be such that they are easy to use and understand. Also the beginners should find it easy to use and it should also be user friendly.

[material quoted by others retained, spammer account deleted]

brasshat
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:06 pm

Post by brasshat » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:25 pm

The concepts "easy to use", "easy to understand", and "user friendly" are all highly subjective. Given two people with the same starting skillset, one might find the software much more intuitive, and "easy to use" than the other. And someone switching from one software product to another might well find that the product switched to is unintuitive, and unfriendly to the user, because the details of the interface are not what that user was acclimated to.

The lesson I've taken from the crafts and trades of the past is that craftsmen need to have command of the tools at their disposal. For a painter, that means knowing how to use a brush, and what happens if one mixes this much of one paint with that much of another. For a Blenderhead, it means knowing how to use the software. Tools one doesn't know how to use properly are generally awkward and uninituitive to use.

ns

actuallystarky
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:21 am
Location: Australia

Post by actuallystarky » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:12 am

brasshat wrote:The concepts "easy to use", "easy to understand", and "user friendly" are all highly subjective. Given two people with the same starting skillset, one might find the software much more intuitive, and "easy to use" than the other.
I absolutely agree, however...

There are standards across software and OS usage that Blender flatly ignores for little to no gain. eg. If I click and drag on a windows desktop, my mouse draws a box which selects all icons contained within it. MacOs works the same way, as does every other major 3d package. Blender doesn't work this way because...?

I believe that simple adherence to established industry standards, where they exist, would only help Blender's accessibility and popularity.
Jason Stark
Founding Partner
www.disparitygames.com

Cygon
Posts: 0
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:12 pm
Location: Germany

Post by Cygon » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:22 pm

As someone who has only used Blender for little over a year, I found that it only leaves established standards in very few places (unlike ZBrush, for example, where you get the suspicion that the software was written by aliens).

The mouse + selection rectangle thing may be a pretty visible, though, so maybe there should be a downloadable cheat sheet to get new users started in order to avoid the shock when they can't find translation/rotation/scale buttons and draw selection frames?

For example

Code: Select all

  Left mouse button = place 3D cursor
  Right mouse button = select things
  Right mouse button + drag = move things
  B, left mouse button + drag = selection frame
  B, middle mouse button + drag = deselection frame
  middle mouse button = rotate
  shift + middle mouse button = pan
  G = move things
  R = rotate things
  S = scale things
  , = use object center as pivot
  . = use 3d cursor as pivot

gfb
Posts: 0
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:32 am

Post by gfb » Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:04 pm

Cygon wrote: The mouse + selection rectangle thing may be a pretty visible, though, so maybe there should be a downloadable cheat sheet to get new users started in order to avoid the shock when they can't find translation/rotation/scale buttons and draw selection frames?
BlenderGuru has one, but is was made for 2.5. It should still work on a majority of the things that beginnings will need though.

Hyrrämyyrä
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:29 am

Post by Hyrrämyyrä » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:33 am

Cygon wrote:As someone who has only used Blender for little over a year, I found that it only leaves established standards in very few places (unlike ZBrush, for example, where you get the suspicion that the software was written by aliens).

The mouse + selection rectangle thing may be a pretty visible, though, so maybe there should be a downloadable cheat sheet to get new users started in order to avoid the shock when they can't find translation/rotation/scale buttons and draw selection frames?

For example

Code: Select all

  Left mouse button = place 3D cursor
  Right mouse button = select things
  Right mouse button + drag = move things
  B, left mouse button + drag = selection frame
  B, middle mouse button + drag = deselection frame
  middle mouse button = rotate
  shift + middle mouse button = pan
  G = move things
  R = rotate things
  S = scale things
  , = use object center as pivot
  . = use 3d cursor as pivot
While I agree that if I were to start my modelling "career" with blender, I'd probably use the original settings, but for me, the first things I do every time I start up a new distro of blender is to change the selection to the left mouse button, change all "Select all" -variables from "A" to "Mouse right", change the rotation to "Alt+mouse middle", move to "Mouse middle" and dolly to "Ctrl+Alt+Mouse Middle". Now, you might wonder why I do this, but the truth is that it's more intuitive for me to use the blender with these apparent 3Ds Max controls as they are more "Non german" (Refering to a certain german philosophy of ignoring the "common practice for common practice" sometimes resulting in something like Z-Brush gizmos), but this is as far as I can tweak my interface.

I do not miss the 3Ds Max, and the last time I started that program, I noticed that I didn't even remember how it worked, but I do miss some vertain features of it. I miss the gizmos that allowed me to clearly move items on two axis, that I am not sure I can do with blender (Yes, with G and Sift+[Axis] you can eliminate one axis on the Grab function, but that's the one function I least prefer to use, as I prefer the gizmos). I know the gizmos aren't in any way an Autodesk registered trademark or anything, since for example UDK and Unity uses the same kind of gizmos. And if I remember corretly, it might've been even in Wings. In fact all other 3D softwares (Except for Z-Brush) I've encountered uses the very standart type of gizmos similar to the Autodesk ones, and I bet it's because they have been found very functional for the purpose. So, I'm not saying that the current Blender gizmos should go permanently, but could it be impossible to have sort of "Custom gizmos", or atleast a tick hidden somewhere in the options that would enable "industry standard" gizmos.

And another thing regarding to the issue is that ALMOST everything in Blender is customizable, and you can change ALMOST any hotkey. Except for four that is. Those four are "Hide Manipulators" (Ergo. Hide gizmos), "Select Transfor Manipulator", "Select Rotation Manipulator" and "Select Scale Manipulator". Now, you might see where I'm going with this... I mean, I know that in blender the keys Q,W,E and R does something, but I've never actually ended up using them... Infact aside from the small amount of hotkeys I use, I rely heavily on Spacebar for other functions. So for me, those keys, used in many software to determine what king of "Gizmo" "Widget" or "Manipulator" to use, are kind of "Not in use", because I can't assign the desired functions to them. So, I have this tiny request, that I assume is not impossible to execute by the developement team, to have these little options at hand. And if someone states that "No it's actually impossible to do so", then I do say to such programmer that "No, you just haven't tought of a way yet, and stating that something is impossible to program makes you a bad programmer", since I've seen novice programmers casually do stuff that the "experts" claim impossible.

And also, to make the blender more aproachable, why not include the splashscreen, even for the first startup, with a suggestion of UI, where you could choose it you've used Blender for years, and therefore don't need any tutorials or nothing more of the matter, or perhaps you're new to the 3D modelling, and wish to go trough a small intro tutorial. Or perhaps you've tried some other 3D modelling software, and it would be easier for you to kind of "choose a preset" from the very beginning of your journey to Blender. I mean, I bet the splashscreen has some cool info in it, but I never read it, and it's the first thing I disable after enabling the "prompt to quit". So it would be cool to have an actual meaning fot the splashscreen to appear on the first startup, it doesn't mean it shouldn't still close on click, but it would be handy introduction for those that repel the Blender because they can not understand it, as it's so different from so many other modelling softwares, that people might have already gotten used to get around with.

And why would the Blender community care about how "easily approachable" the software is? Well, let us just say that more people use Blender, the larger the amount of external softwares that do support .blend. And besides, I've learned that Blender is very efficient, versatile, and in my opinion the best aivable doftware for 3D creation and editing (And regardles of some "licensing issues", a very effective game editor), so why should we keep all the good stuff to our selves? Isn't it kind of the point of Open source, that it belongs to everybody? Should we be such elitistic hipsters that we would look down on the medium that used the commercial software, just because they "can't adapt" to "our great methods and our exclusive interface"? If that was the case, and I was a prgrammer, I would force myself to create a distro of Blender that would frown on such inbred society, just because for me everyone who prefers them to be above "the others", is actually just an insolen duche that, if in any different position to the next, is on lower status.

tl:dr:
-It would be intuitive to have the "standard issue" "gizmos" (manipulators) as an optional part of Blender interface
-It would also be more intuitive to have a possibility to bind manipulators under hotkeys, for those who do not prefer to use the G,S and R, but the manipulators instead
-At first startup the Blender should make the user feel rahter welcome than confused, by asking for preferred preset
-It is a benefit for all to have Blender as easily approachable, as it is also more pureharted philosophy of the Open Source community

CoDEmanX
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:42 pm
Location: Germany

Post by CoDEmanX » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:09 am

You can actually bind hotkeys for toggle manipulators, and for switching which are shown. It's not possbile directly via rightclick however.

See
http://cgcookie.com/blender/2010/05/17/custom-hot-keys/
http://www.blenderartist.org/forum/show ... tor-Hotkey

In user prefs > input, add a new hotkey for View3d (Global) like this:

wm.context_toggle
space_data.show_manipulator

the other boolean properties are:
space_data.use_manipulator_translate
space_data.use_manipulator_rotate
space_data.use_manipulator_scale


or use my script:

Code: Select all

import bpy

bl_info = {
    "name": "Manipulator Hotkeys",
    "description": "Bind manipulator modes to keys",
    "author": "CoDEmanX",
    "version": (0, 1),
    "warning": "Rougly written, hope it works.",
    "category": "3D View"
    }


class VIEW3D_OT_manipulator_set(bpy.types.Operator):
    '''Change manipulator mode(s) in 3D View space'''
    bl_idname = "view3d.manipulator_set"
    bl_label = "Manipulator Set Mode"

    mode = bpy.props.BoolVectorProperty(name="Mode", default=(True, False, False))

    @classmethod
    def poll(cls, context):
        return True

    def execute(self, context):
        for a in context.screen.areas:
            if a.type == 'VIEW_3D':
                for s in a.spaces:
                    if s.type == 'VIEW_3D':
                        print(self.mode)
                        if not True in self.mode:
                            s.show_manipulator = False
                        else:
                            s.show_manipulator = True
                            s.use_manipulator_translate = self.mode[0]
                            s.use_manipulator_rotate = self.mode[1]
                            s.use_manipulator_scale = self.mode[2]
        
        return {'FINISHED'}
    
class VIEW3D_OT_manipulator_toggle(bpy.types.Operator):
    '''Toggle manipulator mode in 3D View space'''
    bl_idname = "view3d.manipulator_toggle"
    bl_label = "Manipulator Set Mode"

    @classmethod
    def poll(cls, context):
        return True
        #return context.space_data.type == 'VIEW_3D'

    def execute(self, context):
        
        # Could use context.space_data instead, but works from console etc. this way
        for a in context.screen.areas:
            if a.type == 'VIEW_3D':
                for sp in a.spaces:
                    if sp.type == 'VIEW_3D':
                        sp.show_manipulator = True
                        
                        t = sp.use_manipulator_translate
                        r = sp.use_manipulator_rotate

                        sp.use_manipulator_translate = \
                        sp.use_manipulator_rotate = \
                        sp.use_manipulator_scale = False

                        if t:
                            sp.use_manipulator_rotate = True
                        elif r:
                            sp.use_manipulator_scale = True
                        else:
                            sp.use_manipulator_translate = True
        
        return {'FINISHED'}


def register():
    bpy.utils.register_class(VIEW3D_OT_manipulator_set)
    bpy.utils.register_class(VIEW3D_OT_manipulator_toggle)
    
    kc = bpy.context.window_manager.keyconfigs.addon
    if kc:
        km = kc.keymaps.new(name="3D View", space_type="VIEW_3D")

        # TODO: Find better hotkeys
        kmi = km.keymap_items.new('view3d.manipulator_set', 'NUMPAD_9', 'PRESS', shift=True)
        kmi.properties.mode = (True, False, False)
        kmi = km.keymap_items.new('view3d.manipulator_set', 'NUMPAD_9', 'PRESS', ctrl=True)
        kmi.properties.mode = (False, True, False)
        kmi = km.keymap_items.new('view3d.manipulator_set', 'NUMPAD_9', 'PRESS', alt=True)
        kmi.properties.mode = (False, False, True)
        
        kmi = km.keymap_items.new('view3d.manipulator_toggle', 'NUMPAD_MINUS', 'PRESS', shift=True)

def unregister():
    bpy.utils.unregister_class(VIEW3D_OT_manipulator_set)
    bpy.utils.unregister_class(VIEW3D_OT_manipulator_toggle)

    kc = bpy.context.window_manager.keyconfigs.addon
    if kc:
        km = kc.keymaps["3D View"]
        for kmi in km.keymap_items:
            if kmi.idname in ('view3d.manipulator_set', 'view3d.manipulator_toggle'):
                #if kmi.properties.name == "VIEW3D_OT_manipulator_set":
                km.keymap_items.remove(kmi)
                #break
                
if __name__ == "__main__":
    register()
Hotkeys are by default:
translate manipulator Shift+Numpad 9
rotate manipulator Ctrl+Numpad 9
Scale manipulator Alt+Numpad 9
Cycle through: Shift+Numpad minus[/quote]
I'm sitting, waiting, wishing, building Blender in superstition...

CoDEmanX
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:42 pm
Location: Germany

Post by CoDEmanX » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:15 am

for got to say:
you can select an interaction preset in the splash screen (Blender, Maya, 3ds Max)
I'm sitting, waiting, wishing, building Blender in superstition...

Hyrrämyyrä
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:29 am

Post by Hyrrämyyrä » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:23 am

Well I'll be damned... Never noticed that interaction option before. Then again, I'm not entirely sure how that affects in the end (have to install a new version to test out so I have the most minimal risk of losing my current preset that I've gotten used to). I'm not actually entirely sure if I've tried to change to that preset back in 3Ds Max days from the user preferences, but somehow I'm quite under the impression that it didn't change for example the mouse clicking and the 3D cursor (That I know now, is a neat tool, but for someone new to the blender, it's a total enigma)

As for the manipulators... Umm... Okay, neat thanks. I think I'll look in to that.

But that is kind a part of the problem here between blender developement and possible software migrators: All feels alien, and the things that are elswere aivable as default, takes a lots of work. What that means is that yes, it seems to be possible for have custom keys for manipulators, and yes, I know there is the interaction preset aivable, but as said, many who are new to blender, but not modeling, would prefer to stick to the manipulators at start. I myself next to never use the "rotate" hotkey, because it feels way too approximate, but prefer to use the manipulator for more accurate results. Same goes for moving vertexies, actually; the grab is neat to have, but I've learned not to move a vertex on more than 2 axis at a time, and grab kind of ignores such guideline. And for those who don't know the hotkeys, the first keys for gizmos is to try the defaults of other programs. There is absolutely no reason to include the manipulators in the default hotkeys, and tehre are absolutely no reason to not to include the common gizmos as a default option. The last thing people wish to start with is custom forking of the interface.

The thing I'm trying to get to is that while I've found blender to be more efficient software on modelling that any other, in my opinion, it is still alienating to get in to since all the education (not the tutorials, most people can't get the beginnig spark via tutorials) is given mainly on commercial 3D software. And because Blender insist on having it's own private interface, it also alienates many people away. I mean, I never liked 3Ds Max that much anyways, but that was the software that was taught to me, and at the time, I tried blender and was completelly lost with the interface. It took 3 days for me to get to Blender at the end, because we had a course that included an itroduction to blender. And even at that, I mostly needed to ask what to do, from a guy sitting next to me, who had gotten in to Blender bit earlier. I got in to Blender because I wanted to use a free license alternative, I am an exception in that manner. I was already posessing the mindset of Blender being efficient modelling software, and for my guess, the Blender gets quite a lots of hate because it's as alien as Z-Brush, and Z-Brush atleast is such a commercial product that they prefer to educate the teachers in it. Blender is just an alien software made by developers for the developers, and what it needs is an approach to the "common people".

And unfortuantelly this goes for Linux too, and to almost any Open source project there is. The projects themselves may, in the end, be very intuitive, and more functional than commercial products, but the issue is that the developers do not reach the "Medium", as the users of Open source are primarily those who love to take a look at the code, and have different mindset over thing. They don't care about the interface, since they can tweak the interface to whatever they like. Yes, the Blender is from artists, to artists, but not to every artist, but to those artist who wish to be a part of the developement. And yes, over the years the interface has came down closer to "mere mortal", aka. "the consumer", but still, the solutions "the consumers" seek are not a list of code and external plugins, they seek whatever they're used to. They seek whatever has been taught to them. And Open source is not for them, because as it may be the best program there is, it's designed and tested by engineers, not consumers, it's made of a need of someone who needs the software oneself, instead for the next who knows not of how to develop. The open source is not hated because it's open, but because it's not approachable.

In example: I know a girl who programs, AND is at personel management due the skill of understanding both sides. She writes project planning for "customers", and the reason why the programmers can't write such reports is that the programmers seldom understand that the customers doesn't really care HOW something is done, that is very important to programmers, but are more interested in WHAT is being done. Programmers seldom are good UI designers for this same reason; they do not understand the target group.

So in short, now I know that I can have the manipulators under hotkeys, after quite a while of using Blender, but I am already in to blender. In fact, I probably just take the hotkey that hides or displays the manipulator, but that doesn't make it any more approachable for others. I still have to listen how "bad" and "useless" software Blender is, because people just can't figure out how it works.

Hyrrämyyrä
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:29 am

Post by Hyrrämyyrä » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:48 am

As a sidenote... I ended up testing the presets and they seem to work quite well in the current version... it's just...

...Well, I'll stick to my custom tweaks since the old 3Ds Max preset feels horrible now that I've gotten used to the Blender ^^

Also, for some reason the manipulator hotkeys are included except for q, ergo hiding/displaying the manipulator. That still drops the context menu atleast for me o_O

Also,since there is quite a lot of stuff that is different from the vanilla Blender key preset, I believe that the Max users may have difficulties getting used to the Blender tutorials, that are of great use when you've gotten in to the software.

I think I'll see if I can make a preset set for "3Ds max essentials" for new blender people, and test it out in my school amongst those who are just getting in to the 3Ds max. If it works out well, I'll probably try to push it to the official distro as stock preset (if that even is possible).

jettatore
Posts: 0
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:59 pm

Post by jettatore » Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:25 pm

Simple fact: Switching 3D interfaces is a serious undertaking. Simpler fact: Switching from a superior interface to an inferior interface is a nearly impossible mental undertaking and not cost effective, which is why virtually no one does it.

Blender, has a psychoticly haphazard and slapdash interface simply by the nature of it's open source development approach. Someone who starts with Blender fairly early in their 3D travels, might never notice and never be the wiser, but anyone coming to Blender from a better interface with serious experience invested beforehand (aka. more than dabbling), is going to have a nightmare and near impossible time mentally coping with Blender's "style" and I'm using that term loosely. It's that bad, -the community and the developers have been told this numerous times by users who have attempted to make the jump and nothing effective is ever done about it, this isn't going to change, it's a take it or leave it endeavor.

Can the switch be made? Yes if said artist is being paid/funded specifically to do so or if they have little depth to their existing 3D experience and wouldn't notice anything amiss in the first place.

Others can claim subjectivity but I'm certain if it were put to an actual test, Blender would not be winning any speed or efficacy challenges vs. clearly superior interfaces that exist and pre-date Blender and have not been thoroughly investigated by the Blender community or developers themselves. Anyone who would claim otherwise is sadly mistaken, lying or both.

It's a shame as switching to open source tools is an incredibly enticing idea both conceptually and financially. I really wanted open source art tools to be the end all be all future of development, and a real alternative to the frankly overpriced tools and companies that milk their users with every minor release update year after year, with terrible upgrade pricing and expensive rental options. But unfortunately I have found both GIMP and Blender to be nigh un-usable over multiple, dedicated attempts to make the switch. I'd rather just keep my hair, gladly pay the fees and move on - and to the original poster, that is what you should do, as you will likely find no satisfaction trying to either a. change the situation like you were trying to do with your posts here, or b. accepting what you already know and understand to be ultimately not worth the cost savings.

I've tried everything from complete customization to learning Blender/GIMP interfaces as is (usually my preferred style for collaboration purposes) and neither outcome leads to a use-able experience compared to the expensive but in the end way more effective alternatives.

Photoshop and Softimage and Mudbox (for example) are by far a superior set of tools to the formerly mentioned free alternatives, in nearly every way but here and most specifically, in the interface department. And the only thing that can be done - is to deny this reality or fix it, and from my experience with the open source developer crowd (who often lack any intimate knowledge in using professionally designed interfaces before they start their cloning work), denial is the preferred mechanism of choice.

To sum up a few of the more popular 3D interfaces briefly. Out of the box, Softimage has the best of the best interface overall, followed by Max. Maya can be great software but requires heavy customization for fluid use-ability and work speed, and even Max benefits a lot from additional customization and add-ons but it's way more, ready to use upon installation than Maya in terms of layout and approach/speed/ease of use, etc.. Major studios always customize Maya to the point where it doesn't even resemble a default install/and or it's functionality is drastically expanded. Without heavy customization, Maya hotkeys and stock toolset/layout/etc. are not feasible for time intensive production, it's pop-up and pulldown menu's are a mess and you will spend a lot of time with a mess of shelves and many extra clicks -while almost every single serious Maya user has their own unique/customized approach to the software that differs from user to user... Maya for this reason, is often avoided by medium and small sized studios, that said, it's still a great piece of software and all of the software, Blender included, can end up at nearly the same end result, that bit is not in contention or up for debate. But without heavy customization or future changes, they won't be winning any speed or ease of use awards in getting there.

One would have to either be extremely experienced with a product like Softimage, or watch an experienced Soft user in person to fully understand the comparison I am making here and just how far superior that interface is for virtually every aspect of 3D creation compared to Blender and even other pro 3D alternatives. And without that understanding, all one can do is claim that it's a subjective personal opinion, which really is not the case - and if they actually knew better, they would never suggest such a notion in the first place.

It's the same story over and over. Someone says the Blender/GIMP interface is bad and the fans/developers who don't know enough of what they are talking about just deny and argue the point or come up with some irritating anecdote and nothing ever changes. The software remains unusably inefficient to those who know better (sure you won't face this problem if you don't in fact know better, but if you did, imagine how hard it would be to basically, downgrade! which is why you will continue to see this same conversation pop up on Blender/GIMP forums), and even with the alternatives being very expensive, it's not cost effective and never will be cost effective to go through the 'free' route until and if drastic changes are implemented which I suspect from several years of going back to checking on this open source idea, will never be the case, at least not any time soon and I suspect actually never at this point.

The Blender messy dual material interface (nodal and non-nodal) with both parts being nearly incompatible with one another is a great example of the Blender system being inferior (compared to a pro nodal material editor that works just fine in conjunction with it's non-nodal material interface set).

-this dual incompatible mess with itself is a great example of a Blender interface nightmare that will likely remain un-addressed or incorrectly addressed for a long time forward, and the list of similar examples continues on and on down the line and is not worth listing in detail, however, to the un-initiated, they won't even notice and or understand the difference and suggestions/complaints to the contrary will remain baffling to them. To someone trying to make a switch to Blender, it becomes clearly impossible/inefficient and they quickly give up the idea or make posts like the one I am responding to, usually after a fair amount of time is first wasted.

I would be the first person in line to be recommending Blender and GIMP if serious interface and other issues were completely overhauled and effectively so, but as it stands the argument is mute and nothing will come of it and the sad fact is that any developer willing to commit themselves to such a large task will likely first fail to put in the time necessary with existing Pro-interfaces to even be effective at implementing proper and effective changes, which is why I suggest that such an event will at this point, likely never take place.

Blender/GIMP folks will continue to be content while professionals pay no notice and continue not to use either free alternative. It's that simple, its sort of sad, but that's the reality of it. GIMP and Blender are fairly feature rich at this point, but that utility is hidden in deceptively bad interfaces and that is exactly what you are paying for when you go with professional alternatives.

Much like you could, and many extremely talented artists with disabilities do, paint Rembrandt quality works with the use of only ones mouth or toes, it's far from an ideal situation.

Others are unfortunately free to and will continue to disagree with a myriad of quirky anecdotes yet nothing will come of it so, to the original poster or anyone with similar questions/concerns, I would suggest considering this case closed and move on, or prepare yourself for a great deal of frustration in either accepting or trying to change the situation.

Hyrrämyyrä
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:29 am

Post by Hyrrämyyrä » Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:23 pm

I find it rather interesting how people who tink that blender interface is "inferior" (As I said, it is not standard, and for beginners, it's alienating) are those who have failed to learn the blender interface. Blender actually is probably fastest modelling software there is due to the interface, and for me, the one thing slowing me down with the Blender is my original educasion with 3Ds Max. Why is that? Well, because everything you want to do with blender is at hand all times, almost every action is easily binded to a hotkey, that makes using blender extremely fast and intuitive, as long as you get to it (for the same reason I find the 3Ds Max preset somewhat non working, since all the useful blender hotkeys get messed up), the blender simply is the fastest and most efficient. But that also makes it probably the hardest to learn, since there is no proper education aivable for the interface, and there is no internal tutorial, where as Autodesk benefits from teaching people to use their expensive software, as it becomes far less of a hassle to just buy what you already know to use.

As said, Blender interface is unorthodox, and somewhat alienating, because it's from programmers who model to programmers who model, but by any standard it is NOT inferior. Just because you're used to the "easy" way, doesn't mean that if you can't learn it, it's inferior. I have used both softwares, and I can say from experience, that when you know how to use 3Ds Max, and you know how to use Blender, you will choose Blender because it IS more efficient. It kind of like the difference between learning guitar and piano, you learn the basics of guitar, and orthodox modeling fast, but the advanced stuff takes more time, but with piano and Blender, you may have difficulties learning the basics, but when you got them, the rest is easy.

Besides, in the recent years, actually probably from the 2.5 on, the blender has advanced very fast. It may not be the best thing for rendering just yet, due the Cycles, but it doesn't require much to match the 3Ds max atleast. The issue with the "professionals" is that first of all, very few has the guts to admit that the expensive license they've paid for is matched by something you can have for free, and because blender may have been, couple years back, a bit different software that it is today.

And to mention: I have been suggested to NOT to change to blender by my teachers because "Max is the industry standard", and I still would have the 3Ds Max aivable if I wanted to, but I hace done my completelly vouluntary choise to learn Blender. As said, it only needed the 3 days to get to the basics, and after that it's easy all the way to the top.

Post Reply