Face/Edge/Vertex Mode Proposal

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blendix
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Post by blendix »

I really don't see the need for a All-in-one Mode, assuming all tools would be available all the time, as I proposed :D. As I see it, having all tools available in each mode is not conflicting with the way Wings works. You would just have more tools available.

You could argue that in Wings, the Vertex/Edge/Face Modes are more dedicated, or that they, because of the strict separation, allow you to do more specific things. But the only 'action tool' that works differently in each mode, is Extrude (correct me if i'm wrong). I don't really care that much how Extrude will work, because I don't think it is that relevant in the discussion on Modes. It's used as an example often, while it is actually an exception.

So, I think you would be able to model Wings-style, while still being able to model Blender-style in Vertex Mode (if you forget Extrude for a second).

Then there is the proposal by thorwil to make it possible to make multiple selection modes available at the same time. It's kind of unclear to me how this would work. Especially when it comes to keeping the selections consistent. This could give some interesting possiblities though. I'm not quite sure about this, although I think it's worth investigation.

thorwil
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Post by thorwil »

blendix wrote:But the only 'action tool' that works differently in each mode, is Extrude (correct me if i'm wrong). I don't really care that much how Extrude will work, because I don't think it is that relevant in the discussion on Modes. It's used as an example often, while it is actually an exception.
Extrude is extremely important because it's used all the time. And as an exception its even more important for this discussion, because exceptions have to be handled somehow.
Then there is the proposal by thorwil to make it possible to make multiple selection modes available at the same time. It's kind of unclear to me how this would work. Especially when it comes to keeping the selections consistent. This could give some interesting possiblities though. I'm not quite sure about this, although I think it's worth investigation.
A vertex selection would always stay an vertex selection, same for edge and face.
There's a little problem with my proposal: Say a face is selected, and the user turns face selection off. Selection should not change as a side-effect. So the selection remains, but can't be deselected by clicking on it, because this will now mean selecting the nearest vertice or edge. Maybe it would be the best to make an exception here, for still allowing deselection by clicking.

blendix
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Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 pm

Post by blendix »

thorwil wrote:
blendix wrote:But the only 'action tool' that works differently in each mode, is Extrude (correct me if i'm wrong). I don't really care that much how Extrude will work, because I don't think it is that relevant in the discussion on Modes. It's used as an example often, while it is actually an exception.
Extrude is extremely important because it's used all the time. And as an exception its even more important for this discussion, because exceptions have to be handled somehow.
I should have been more clear. It is important that this tool is accessible in an efficient way, etc. A solution should be found for it. But I don't think it should be used as an example to support the idea of having more strictly separated modes. I was rather trying to support the point I made in the paragraph before it.
thorwil wrote:
Then there is the proposal by thorwil to make it possible to make multiple selection modes available at the same time. It's kind of unclear to me how this would work. Especially when it comes to keeping the selections consistent. This could give some interesting possiblities though. I'm not quite sure about this, although I think it's worth investigation.
A vertex selection would always stay an vertex selection, same for edge and face.
There's a little problem with my proposal: Say a face is selected, and the user turns face selection off. Selection should not change as a side-effect. So the selection remains, but can't be deselected by clicking on it, because this will now mean selecting the nearest vertice or edge. Maybe it would be the best to make an exception here, for still allowing deselection by clicking.
I'm afraid there will be more of this kind of problems. The trick would be to handle these in a way that is somehow 'predictable and intuitive' to the user.

Monkeyboi
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Post by Monkeyboi »

So, I think you would be able to model Wings-style, while still being able to model Blender-style in Vertex Mode
Neat! But it's not just extrude that works differently. Bevel, for example, works differently in a sence. Simple actions like rotate and scale also work differently. Example: Open Wings, go to face mode, select two faces on the opposite side of the object and scale. Notice how the faces have their own scale/rotation centers locally. In Wings point mode the center is calculated boundbox-blender style.

LeHomard
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Post by LeHomard »

But wouldn't it be more simple to simply add a face select tool (I don't really see the use of edge select) ? You would just use it as a tool, and it would select faces by automaticly selecting the vertices composing that face.
This way there would be nothing else to change in the main code.
And being able to directly select faces would be a great improvement. I just keep on having to extrude faces and I spend ages selecting vertices, finding out I selected a wrong one, start again etc. And I know quite a few people who don't use Blender because of that !
Last edited by LeHomard on Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Koba
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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:48 am

Post by Koba »

Hi

This is quite a long thread with many subtleties comparing Wings and Blender that I don't fully understand. Wings is great but it was built for a certain kind of modeling while Blender is far more general.
I just keep on having to extrude faces and I spend ages selecting vertices, finding out I selected a wrong one, start again etc.
Agreed.

All I want is a quicker way of making selections in Blender: selecting the four vertices that make up a in one click by clicking on that face (4x quicker). This is just adding two features which simply makes modeling less tedious (selecting every-single-vertex-one-by-one).

Unless I am missing something this doesn't change Blender in any fundamental way but make using Blender easier. That and something to stop unwanted selections on the other side of the mesh would make Blender far more usable.

Am I just repeating Monkeyboi's suggestions (again!)? What is wrong with his suggestion?

This doesn't mean I don't support changes to how Blender can be used as a modeler as there are somethings that Wings can do that Blender can't and vic versa.

First things first.

Koba

LeHomard
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Post by LeHomard »

All I want is a quicker way of making selections in Blender: selecting the four vertices that make up a in one click by clicking on that face (4x quicker). This is just adding two features which simply makes modeling less tedious (selecting every-single-vertex-one-by-one).
This doesn't seem to be a very complex feature to implement in Blender (but I'm not a coder myself, so this might be a mistake), and it would considerably improve workflow. Is this something that could be put into Blender, or at least tested in Tuhopuu ?

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